The Glade 4.0

Armed shop owner, worker thwarted heist; 4 men ID'd

Four men who tried to rob a north-side auto shop Tuesday were thwarted when the store's owner pulled out a shotgun and an employee drew a handgun in a shootout that turned deadly for the robbers, police said.
One of the robbers was killed, the three others were injured and the shop's owner suffered a bullet wound in the arm, police said. The employee who fired the fatal shot was not hurt, police said.
On Wednesday, a 20-year-old man was arrested and two others are facing charges in connection with the incident.
Carlos Peyron was booked into the Pima County jail on charges of first-degree murder, attempted aggravated robbery, attempted armed robbery and kidnapping, said Sgt. Fabian Pacheco, a Tucson police spokesman. He is facing charges under the felony murder rule, which allows prosecutors to charge people with murder if someone dies during the commission of certain felonies.
Toney Stith, 26, and Anthony Peyron, 19, were wounded in the shootout and will face the same charges once they are released from the hospital, Pacheco said.
The man killed in the shooting was identified by police as Noah Lopez, 18.
The four men are all gang members, he said. Anthony and Carlos Peyron are brothers.
Police gave this description of the incident:
Four men went into M&M Customs, which sells and installs car alarms, at 3040 N. Stone Ave., a little after 7 p.m.
They confronted an employee, forcing him into the back office.
The shop's owner, who was in the office, pulled out a shotgun and fired, wounding Anthony Peyron.
The robbers tried to flee but encountered a locked door. Lopez turned to the business owner and shot him in the forearm.
The employee got a handgun from his tool kit and shot Lopez, who had turned his gun on the employee.
Lopez ran from the business and was found dead by police a short distance away.
Stith was wounded in the lower extremities, while Carlos Peyron was hit in the back of the head with the stock of the shotgun.
The victims held the suspects at gunpoint until police officers arrived.
Two of the suspects had served time in Arizona Department of Corrections.
Stith was released from prison in March after serving about six years for armed robbery and aggravated robbery, according to state prison records.
Carlos Peyron had served about two years for aggravated assault.
The names of the shop's owner and employee were not released.

You think people would figure it out by now. A responsibly armed citizenry is a greater threat to the evildoer than the innocent.

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

The problem is the word "responsibly." There are a lot of jack*sses out there. Speaking anecdotally, I know 0 people who have used a gun to defend themselves against a criminal, but I know 1 who accidentally blew his friend's head off, 1 who was killed by his neighbor in the middle of the afternoon over a stupid argument, 1 who was accidentally shot (but lived, fortunately) while hunting, 1 who went to jail for raping a girl at gunpoint (legally purchased gun and no prior offenses) and 1 who had an accidental discharge that barely missed his father. Of course, that's in VT, where gun ownership is very common but serious violent crime is very rare.

All that said, I do think people should have the right to own guns if they want, and most people who do are quite safe and responsible. I just don't buy the argument that increasingly widespread gun ownership wouldn't pose a risk to innocent people. Increase the % of the population engaging in any activity, and you increase the number of idiots engaging in that activity.

Sounds like you need a better pool of friends RD... While I don't personally know anyone that used a gun to defend themselves, I also don't personally know anyone with anything remotely similiar to the list of activities using a gun you listed.

Except for the fact that guns are already so prevalent that further increase is unlikely. Not only that, but when other people own guns, it deters at least some of the fools from acting like fools. It also promotes the wider dissemination of information on how to responsbily handle guns, and tht reduces the idiocy itself.

I'll provide you with a similarly biased anecdote ...

I'm not saying all rapists are black, but of the 17 women I know who've been raped, none were raped by a white man.

I agree that it reduces the percentage of gun owners who act like idiots, but it pretty much inevitably increases the raw number of gun-owning idiots. If every household in America had a gun, the percentage of gun owners committing crimes and having accidents might decrease, but the number of such crimes/accidents would go up.

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

You can't claim that guns serve as a deterrant unless it is advertised to be in your possession.

Aka: Beware Night Clerk is armed or open-carry.

The raw numbers of idiots isn't really imporant though. They don't magically become idiots when they get a gun. These sorts of people have plenty of opportunities to cause disasters.

In Ohio, instances of violent crime increased by about 4 percent in the year the gun law was passed.

Then, from 2005 to 2006, violent crime dropped, according to the most recent statistics available from the U.S. Department of Justice.

Jim Irvine, chairman of the Buckeye Firearms Association, said many factors play into crime rates, but he agreed the concealed-carry law isn't one of them.

"I'd love to be able to say it's reduced crime, but I don't think we can say that," he said.

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

I don't see why the raw number of idiots (with guns) wouldn't be important. If more idiots have guns, then the chance of a random person being shot by some idiot will go up. Surely that's a relevant factor when considering the net gains/losses to public safety associated with increasing gun ownership.