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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:40 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Saying "You increase the risk of accident by readying a gun for instant use" is like saing "you increase the risk of a car wreck by driving at rush hour." Of course you do, but by not readying it for use, you increase the risk of not being able to get it if you need it just like not driving at rush hour carries the risk of not getting to work on time.

There's also the fact that just claiming it "increases the risk" is meaningless. How much additional risk does it create?


Absolutely. My only point is that speed of readiness and risk of mistake are linked, which often gets glossed over in discussions like this.


No they aren't "linked". It increases the possibility of accident, there is no causal link in any meaningful sense. It definiely is not getting "glossed over".

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:49 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
RD, when I lived alone, I didn't feel I required a firearm. Now that I have a wife and children, I have the need to protect more than just "stuff". When you live in a nice neighborhood in a progressively more shitty region, the realization hits you that people come to your neighborhood for reasons that aren't always above board. As for the moving - it's in the works.


Yeah, I get that. I've lived in a couple of spots that were on the edge of sketchy, such that people wandering over from the truly sketchy area was not uncommon, and I definitely would have been more nervous if I'd had a wife and kid with me.

I guess I just tend to come away from conversations like this with a sense that some people are far more focused on potential dangers than I am. I mean, I do shoulder checks and casual threat assessments of suspicious-looking people when I'm out and about at night, but in my own home, I just don't feel the need to always be at the ready. *shrug* Maybe I'm naive about the risk of home invasion.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:49 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
No they aren't "linked". It increases the possibility of accident, there is no causal link in any meaningful sense.


This seems contradictory, DE.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:53 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
RD, when I lived alone, I didn't feel I required a firearm. Now that I have a wife and children, I have the need to protect more than just "stuff". When you live in a nice neighborhood in a progressively more shitty region, the realization hits you that people come to your neighborhood for reasons that aren't always above board. As for the moving - it's in the works.


Yeah, I get that. I've lived in a couple of spots that were on the edge of sketchy, such that people wandering over from the truly sketchy area was not uncommon, and I definitely would have been more nervous if I'd had a wife and kid with me.

I guess I just tend to come away from conversations like this with a sense that some people are far more focused on potential dangers than I am. I mean, I do shoulder checks and casual threat assessments of suspicious-looking people when I'm out and about at night, but in my own home, I just don't feel the need to always be at the ready. *shrug* Maybe I'm naive about the risk of home invasion.

For the record, when I go jogging, I leave my door unlocked so that I don't have to carry a key. I don't live in fear, I just prefer to be prepared.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:58 pm 
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That's cool. Didn't mean to suggest you're being paranoid or anything, Screeling. I've certainly done my share of late-night, "WTF was that!?" searches of my apartment, blunt object firmly in hand. *chuckle*


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:01 pm 
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I was called paranoid before for carrying.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:06 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
I was called paranoid before for carrying.



Even if you didn't have one, I would call you paranoid...

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:22 pm 
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Just because the government isn't after you is no reason to call other people paranoid.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:39 pm 
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I thought paranoia was a pre-requisite to joining the muppets... I mean look at Oscar the grouch >=D

Oh I prefer to keep a dagger under my pillow, but consider they need to jump through way too many hoops, and I drive the worst car in my community, the chances are really really low.


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:27 pm 
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Lydiaa is so mean to me!!!

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:29 pm 
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/hugglewimsies? hehe


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:45 pm 
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Awww *adorabalizes*

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:46 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Just because the government isn't after you is no reason to call other people paranoid.


Just because I think everyone is after me, doesn't mean they aint. Know what I mean?


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:51 pm 
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Of course they are after you, Lenas, you have sparkling blue eyes! :)

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:55 pm 
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So do I - why does the government want my eyes?

*looks around*

*scampers under a rock*

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:19 pm 
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Who said the government is only one after your eyes ;)

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:28 pm 
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yeah but if you went after the muppet, he'd enjoy it rather than hide...


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:55 am 
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I proclaim this the most **** up thread ever!

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:45 am 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Uh huh. I'm quite familiar with firearms and a very good shot, thank you very much.


We all know about your prowess in all things "manly" (you've told us repeatedly), but not with reading what people write. What is wrong with mentally preparing to defend yourself while checking for your wife and scanning to see what made the noise?


Maybe I'm getting hung up on the phrasing, but when I read "woke up last night ready to shoot somebody" what that conveys to me is that he woke up ready to pull the trigger. That in my mind is not the same as "mentally preparing to defend yourself while checking for your wife and scanning to see what made the noise."

That combined with his comments of needing to do more drills led me to believe that he was either not being able to process all those good mental and physical preparations quickly enough or was bypassing them and getting into a hair trigger state too quickly. Either of those is bad for different reasons.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:48 am 
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Aizle wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Uh huh. I'm quite familiar with firearms and a very good shot, thank you very much.


We all know about your prowess in all things "manly" (you've told us repeatedly), but not with reading what people write. What is wrong with mentally preparing to defend yourself while checking for your wife and scanning to see what made the noise?


Maybe I'm getting hung up on the phrasing, but when I read "woke up last night ready to shoot somebody" what that conveys to me is that he woke up ready to pull the trigger. That in my mind is not the same as "mentally preparing to defend yourself while checking for your wife and scanning to see what made the noise."

That combined with his comments of needing to do more drills led me to believe that he was either not being able to process all those good mental and physical preparations quickly enough or was bypassing them and getting into a hair trigger state too quickly. Either of those is bad for different reasons.


Yup, I could see how you'd get that - if you hadn't read what was written:
Screeling wrote:
Literally. I woke up to the sound of something clanging near our door. It jolted me awake and I was already mentally preparing for the motions needed to get my gun, cock it, and find the target. As I was doing that, my arm jolted over to where my wife sleeps next to me and she wasn't there.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:16 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
No they aren't "linked". It increases the possibility of accident, there is no causal link in any meaningful sense.


This seems contradictory, DE.


How is it contradictory? Guns don't fire themselves. When you make a gun more ready to use, all you do is reduce the number of conditions that need to be fulfilled to allow an accident to happen. It has no causal power in and of itself.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:19 am 
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Aizle wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Uh huh. I'm quite familiar with firearms and a very good shot, thank you very much.


We all know about your prowess in all things "manly" (you've told us repeatedly), but not with reading what people write. What is wrong with mentally preparing to defend yourself while checking for your wife and scanning to see what made the noise?


Maybe I'm getting hung up on the phrasing, but when I read "woke up last night ready to shoot somebody" what that conveys to me is that he woke up ready to pull the trigger. That in my mind is not the same as "mentally preparing to defend yourself while checking for your wife and scanning to see what made the noise."

That combined with his comments of needing to do more drills led me to believe that he was either not being able to process all those good mental and physical preparations quickly enough or was bypassing them and getting into a hair trigger state too quickly. Either of those is bad for different reasons.


You think he was actually sleeping with the gun in his hand? Presumably you do not. If not, prehaps you could explain how you could possibly be confused by "mentally".

As for your second paragraph, you're evidently trying to conclude things about his actions based on far too little understanding fo self defense situations. Nothing about needing to do drills implies either carelessness or inability to process the situation.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:33 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Screeling wrote:
Yeah, because it never occurred to me I should try to identify the person before I shoot them.


I never said it didn't occur to you. Note my 3rd sentence. All I'm saying is that as you make it easier to quickly shoot a firearm in a panic situation, you also increase the risk of accident. Now, it's very possible to manage that risk through training, and it sounds like you are planning on doing that which is good. However, doing one without the other is asking for trouble.


Which is why you drill, and gain experience. To limit the possibility of mistakes. The mistakes you speak of are entirely avoidable to an experienced and well trained gun owner.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:46 pm 
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Screeling wrote:
Literally. I woke up to the sound of something clanging near our door. It jolted me awake and I was already mentally preparing for the motions needed to get my gun, cock it, and find the target. As I was doing that, my arm jolted over to where my wife sleeps next to me and she wasn't there.

Turns out she knocked make-up over while she was fumbling her way to the door. It took me an hour to settle back down and get back to sleep.

This was the first time I've ever been awoken and been ready to act like that. Sadly, I still felt less than prepared. I keep my piece in its box under my bed. I'm starting to think I need to keep it in my nightstand or sandwiched between the mattress and headboard. I also feel like its time to run drills too.

If you are better prepared mentally to "get my gun, cock it, and find the target" than to count heads when you get woken up suddenly, you should put your weapons farther away, not move them closer.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:58 pm 
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I started reading this thread, quite an interesting thread at that, and I couldn't help it. The Soprano's theme just kept popping into my head.


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