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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:18 pm 
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100517/ap_ ... fender_law

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WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court ruled Monday that federal officials can indefinitely hold inmates considered "sexually dangerous" after their prison terms are complete.
The high court in a 7-2 judgment reversed a lower court decision that said Congress overstepped its authority in allowing indefinite detentions of considered "sexually dangerous."
"The statute is a 'necessary and proper' means of exercising the federal authority that permits Congress to create federal criminal laws, to punish their violation, to imprison violators, to provide appropriately for those imprisoned and to maintain the security of those who are not imprisoned but who may be affected by the federal imprisonment of others," said Justice Stephen Breyer, writing the majority opinion.
President George W. Bush in 2006 signed the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act, which authorized the civil commitment of sexually dangerous federal inmates.
The act, named after the son of "America's Most Wanted" television host John Walsh, was challenged by four men who served prison terms ranging from three to eight years for possession of child pornography or sexual abuse of a minor. Their confinement was supposed to end more than two years ago, but prison officials said there would be a risk of sexually violent conduct or child molestation if they were released.
A fifth man who also was part of the legal challenge was charged with child sex abuse but declared incompetent to stand trial.
The 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va., ruled last year that Congress overstepped its authority when it enacted a law allowing the government to hold indefinitely people who are considered "sexually dangerous."
But "we conclude that the Constitution grants Congress legislative power sufficient to enact" this law, Breyer said.
Solicitor General Elena Kagan successfully argued the government's case in front of the Supreme Court. Kagan has now been nominated to replace the retiring Justice John Paul Stevens.
Kagan in January compared the government's power to commit sexual predators to its power to quarantine federal inmates whose sentences have expired but have a highly contagious and deadly disease.
"Would anybody say that the federal government would not have Article I power to effect that kind of public safety measure? And the exact same thing is true here. This is exactly what Congress is doing here," she said.
Justice Clarence Thomas dissented from the court's judgment, saying Congress can only pass laws that deal with the federal powers listed in the Constitution.
Nothing in the Constitution "expressly delegates to Congress the power to enact a civil commitment regime for sexually dangerous persons, nor does any other provision in the Constitution vest Congress or the other branches of the federal government with such a power," Thomas said.
Thomas was joined in part on his dissent by Justice Antonin Scalia.
Chief Justice John Roberts last year granted an administration request to block the release of up to 77 inmates at a federal prison in North Carolina. These were people whose prison terms for sex offenses were ending. The justice's order was designed to allow time for the high court to consider the administration's appeal.
The Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act also establishes a national sex offender registry, increases punishments for some federal crimes against children and strengthens child pornography protections. Those provisions are not being challenged.
State laws allowing civil commitments of sex offenders also are unaffected.

I don't understand how this isn't a violation of the 5th amendment. This is disgusting. If they've served their sentence, let them out. If their crime was so serious to detain them further, then give them a life sentence.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:21 pm 
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Screeling wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100517/ap_on_go_su_co/us_supreme_court_sex_offender_law

Quote:
WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court ruled Monday that federal officials can indefinitely hold inmates considered "sexually dangerous" after their prison terms are complete.
The high court in a 7-2 judgment reversed a lower court decision that said Congress overstepped its authority in allowing indefinite detentions of considered "sexually dangerous."
"The statute is a 'necessary and proper' means of exercising the federal authority that permits Congress to create federal criminal laws, to punish their violation, to imprison violators, to provide appropriately for those imprisoned and to maintain the security of those who are not imprisoned but who may be affected by the federal imprisonment of others," said Justice Stephen Breyer, writing the majority opinion.
President George W. Bush in 2006 signed the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act, which authorized the civil commitment of sexually dangerous federal inmates.
The act, named after the son of "America's Most Wanted" television host John Walsh, was challenged by four men who served prison terms ranging from three to eight years for possession of child pornography or sexual abuse of a minor. Their confinement was supposed to end more than two years ago, but prison officials said there would be a risk of sexually violent conduct or child molestation if they were released.
A fifth man who also was part of the legal challenge was charged with child sex abuse but declared incompetent to stand trial.
The 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va., ruled last year that Congress overstepped its authority when it enacted a law allowing the government to hold indefinitely people who are considered "sexually dangerous."
But "we conclude that the Constitution grants Congress legislative power sufficient to enact" this law, Breyer said.
Solicitor General Elena Kagan successfully argued the government's case in front of the Supreme Court. Kagan has now been nominated to replace the retiring Justice John Paul Stevens.
Kagan in January compared the government's power to commit sexual predators to its power to quarantine federal inmates whose sentences have expired but have a highly contagious and deadly disease.
"Would anybody say that the federal government would not have Article I power to effect that kind of public safety measure? And the exact same thing is true here. This is exactly what Congress is doing here," she said.
Justice Clarence Thomas dissented from the court's judgment, saying Congress can only pass laws that deal with the federal powers listed in the Constitution.
Nothing in the Constitution "expressly delegates to Congress the power to enact a civil commitment regime for sexually dangerous persons, nor does any other provision in the Constitution vest Congress or the other branches of the federal government with such a power," Thomas said.
Thomas was joined in part on his dissent by Justice Antonin Scalia.
Chief Justice John Roberts last year granted an administration request to block the release of up to 77 inmates at a federal prison in North Carolina. These were people whose prison terms for sex offenses were ending. The justice's order was designed to allow time for the high court to consider the administration's appeal.
The Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act also establishes a national sex offender registry, increases punishments for some federal crimes against children and strengthens child pornography protections. Those provisions are not being challenged.
State laws allowing civil commitments of sex offenders also are unaffected.

I don't understand how this isn't a violation of the 5th amendment. This is disgusting. If they've served their sentence, let them out. If their crime was so serious to detain them further, then give them a life sentence.


I agree it is a travesty. However, if they can prove it is an incurable mental disorder then I would be ok with them being institutionalized but even that gives me the serious heebie-jeebies and turns my stomach.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:44 pm 
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Yay!

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:54 pm 
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Just FYI, but this shouldn't have shocked anyone, and falls right in line with existing laws and abilities on the books, and the decision by the USSC is very narrow in scope, to the point that I think the defendants argued it incorrectly, depending on the manner of their guilt (plea, etc).

That said, here are the 5 points considered by the majority opinion:

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(1) The Clause grants Congress broad authority to pass laws in furtherance of its constitutionally enumerated powers. It makes clear that grants of specific federal legislative authority are accompanied by broad power to enact laws that are “convenient, or useful” or “conducive” to the enumerated power’s “beneficial exercise,” e.g., McCulloch v. Maryland, 4 Wheat. 316, 413, 418, and that Congress can “legislate on that vast mass of incidental powers which must be involved in the constitution,” id., at 421. In determining whether the Clause authorizes a particular federal statute, there must be “means-ends rationality” between the enacted statute and the source of federal power. Sabri v. United States, 541 U. S. 600, 605. The Constitution “addresse[s]” the “choice of means” “primarily . . . to the judgment of Congress. If it can be seen that the means adopted are really calculated to attain the end, the degree of their necessity, the extent to which they conduce to the end, the closeness of the relationship be-tween the means adopted and the end to be attained, are matters for
2 UNITED STATES v. COMSTOCK
Syllabus
congressional determination alone.” Burroughs v. United States, 290
U. S. 534, 547–548. Thus, although the Constitution nowhere grants Congress express power to create federal crimes beyond those specifically enumerated, to punish their violation, to imprison violators, to provide appropriately for those imprisoned, or to maintain the security of those who are not imprisoned but who may be affected by the federal imprisonment of others, Congress possesses broad authority to do each of those things under the Clause. Pp. 5–9.

(2)
Congress has long been involved in the delivery of mental health care to federal prisoners, and has long provided for their civil commitment. See, e.g., Act of Mar. 3, 1855, 10 Stat. 682; Insanity Defense Reform Act of 1984, 18 U. S. C. §§4241–4247. A longstanding history of related federal action does not demonstrate a statute’s constitutionality, see, e.g., Walz v. Tax Comm’n of City of New York, 397
U.
S. 664, 678, but can be “helpful in reviewing the substance of a congressional statutory scheme,” Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U. S. 1, 21, and, in particular, the reasonableness of the relation between the new statute and preexisting federal interests. Section 4248 differs from earlier statutes in that it focuses directly upon persons who, due to a mental illness, are sexually dangerous. Many of these individuals, however, were likely already subject to civil commitment under§4246, which, since 1949, has authorized the post sentence detention of federal prisoners who suffer from a mental illness and who are thereby dangerous (whether sexually or otherwise). The similarities between §4246 and §4248 demonstrate that the latter is a modest addition to a longstanding federal statutory framework. Pp. 9–14.

(3)
There are sound reasons for §4248’s enactment. The Federal Government, as custodian of its prisoners, has the constitutional power to act in order to protect nearby (and other) communities from the danger such prisoners may pose. Moreover, §4248 is “reasonably adapted” to Congress’ power to act as a responsible federal custodian. United States v. Darby, 312 U. S. 100, 121. Congress could have reasonably concluded that federal inmates who suffer from a mental illness that causes them to “have serious difficulty in refraining from sexually violent conduct,” §4247(a)(6), would pose an especially high danger to the public if released. And Congress could also have reasonably concluded that a reasonable number of such individuals would likely not be detained by the States if released from federal custody. Congress’ desire to address these specific challenges, taken together with its responsibilities as a federal custodian, supports the conclusion that §4248 satisfies “review for means-end rationality,” Sabri, supra, at 605. Pp. 14–16.

(4)
Respondents’ contention that §4248 violates the Tenth Amendment because it invades the province of state sovereignty in an area
Cite as: 560 U. S. ____ (2010) 3
Syllabus
typically left to state control is rejected. That Amendment does not “reserve to the States” those powers that are “delegated to the United States by the Constitution,” including the powers delegated by the Necessary and Proper Clause. See, e.g., New York v. United States, 505 U. S. 144, 159. And §4248 does not “invade” state sovereignty, but rather requires accommodation of state interests: Among other things, it directs the Attorney General to inform the States where the federal prisoner “is domiciled or was tried” of his detention, §4248(d),and gives either State the right, at any time, to assert its authority over the individual, which will prompt the individual’s immediate transfer to State custody, §4248(d)(1). In Greenwood v. United States, 350 U. S. 366, 375–376, the Court rejected a similar challenge to §4248’s predecessor, the 1949 statute described above. Because the version of the statute at issue in Greenwood was less protective of state interests than §4248, a fortiori, the current statute does not invade state interests. Pp. 16–18.

(5) Section 4248 is narrow in scope. The Court rejects respondents’ argument that, when legislating pursuant to the Necessary and Proper Clause, Congress’ authority can be no more than one step re-moved from a specifically enumerated power. See, e.g., McCulloch, supra, at 417. Nor will the Court’s holding today confer on Congress a general “police power, which the Founders denied the National Government and reposed in the States.” United States v. Morrison, 529 U. S. 598, 618. Section §4248 has been applied to only a small fraction of federal prisoners, and its reach is limited to individuals already “in the custody of the” Federal Government, §4248(a). Thus, far from a “general police power,” §4248 is a reasonably adapted and narrowly tailored means of pursuing the Government’s legitimate interest as a federal custodian in the responsible administration of its prison system. See New York, supra, at 157. Pp. 18–22.
The Court does not reach or decide any claim that the statute or its application denies equal protection, procedural or substantive due process, or any other constitutional rights. Respondents are free to pursue those claims on remand, and any others they have preserved.
P. 22.


What will be interesting is in how this is stretched, considering sexual deviancy has just been rendered a mental affliction.


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:40 pm 
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I watched some about this on the Dr.Phil show (I happened to catch it channel surfing.)
One of the guys on there, supposedly a "reformed" pedophile said that pedophilia was not a mental disorder it was actually a deviant sexual orientation just like homosexuality. I think the guy is right.
Put it that way and there is no possible way you could "reform" a pedophile.
Put them away forever.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:44 pm 
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Put them away forever if they have this sexual outlook or put them away forever if they've shown they cannot control it?

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Put them away forever if they have this sexual outlook or put them away forever if they've shown they cannot control it?

If they've acted on it to get in jail in the first place then they cannot control it, no?

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:47 pm 
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That is what I am asking Hopwin.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:50 pm 
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The recidivism rate for sexually based crimes is exceptionally high (especially pedophiles), in the 78% range if I recall the lecture correctly (though it was a few years ago as well, so dated info). It also fluctuates considerably based upon the "severity" of the crime... the rate is much higher among people that rape 4 and 5 yr olds for example, and almost non-existent among 17yr olds that sex with their 16yr old girlfriend.


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:56 pm 
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The crazy thing is that this is not just limited to convicted sex offenders. Federal prisoners convicted of other crimes (like tax evasion or something equally benign) can also be held indefinitely if the government considers them "sexually dangerous."

No potential for abuse there...


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:03 pm 
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Amanar wrote:
The crazy thing is that this is not just limited to convicted sex offenders. Federal prisoners convicted of other crimes (like tax evasion or something equally benign) can also be held indefinitely if the government considers them "sexually dangerous."

No potential for abuse there...

That would be a decent point Amanar, but you have misdirected your concern. The ability to hold criminals beyond their sentencing for mental capacity concerns dates to 1949. This "new" issue is little more than a recognition of a particular behavior pattern as mental rather than strictly criminal.


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:40 pm 
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So can 17 year old high school boys be held in jail forever for **** their 15 year old girlfriend?

I mean, after all, when they get tried as an adult and sent to Federal prison for their term, they'll inevitably get assed raped. Therefore, when parole hearings come around and their file indicates that they're known for intercourse with other inmates, they can easily be labeled sexually dangerous.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:41 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
So can 17 year old high school boys be held in jail forever for **** their 15 year old girlfriend?

I mean, after all, when they get tried as an adult and sent to Federal prison for their term, they'll inevitably get assed raped. Therefore, when parole hearings come around and their file indicates that they're known for intercourse with other inmates, they can easily be labeled sexually dangerous.


The Federal government isn't in the habit of prosecuting this sort of case. In fact, I'm not sure what sex offenders they prosecute, other than those under UCMJ.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:43 pm 
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Child porn is a federal crime, is it not?


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
Child porn is a federal crime, is it not?


Yes, forgot about that one.

It wouldn't cover the 17-year-old **** his 15-year-old GF though.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:22 pm 
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It would if she took naked pics of herself and emailed them or texted them to him.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
It would if she took naked pics of herself and emailed them or texted them to him.


In that case she'd get nailed, not him. Contrary to popular belief, people do not get sent to prison for being bombed with child porn. They get sent to prison for having it and then claiming that's what happened.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:42 pm 
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They get sent to prison if they do not delete it as soon as they see it.

You're 19 and your 17yo gf texts you a topless pic, you're not going to delete it.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:44 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
They get sent to prison if they do not delete it as soon as they see it.

You're 19 and your 17yo gf texts you a topless pic, you're not going to delete it.


You are if you're smart.

And then you tell your underage GF to not do that anymore please.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:46 pm 
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I don't believe the action would have anything at all to do with intelligence.

Maybe 2% of 19 year old males would delete them. I doubt its that much.

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Ladas wrote:
The recidivism rate for sexually based crimes is exceptionally high (especially pedophiles), in the 78% range if I recall the lecture correctly (though it was a few years ago as well, so dated info). It also fluctuates considerably based upon the "severity" of the crime... the rate is much higher among people that rape 4 and 5 yr olds for example, and almost non-existent among 17yr olds that sex with their 16yr old girlfriend.



Actually this is a myth Ladas. The recidivism rate is much lower.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=misunderstood-crimes

http://www.mincava.umn.edu/documents/sexoff/sexoff.pdf p33-35

http://www.csom.org/pubs/mythsfacts.html (US Deparment of Justice)

http://www.csom.org/pubs/recidsexof.html

The last link is probably the best, and is directly from the US Department of Justice.

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Elmarnieh wrote:
I don't believe the action would have anything at all to do with intelligence.

Maybe 2% of 19 year old males would delete them. I doubt its that much.


Yeah, when your life can be *ruined* by having said images...

Not just pay a fine and go on your merry way kind of ruined... serious jail time, and registering as a **** pedophile for the rest of your life kind of ruined.

I know, if I was 19 in this day and age... I'd delete that **** so fast.

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I have no problem with lengthening the penalties for certain sex crimes, and tying them to judicial discretion, however this ruling sets a terrible precedent that we should all be afraid of.

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Ladas wrote:
That would be a decent point Amanar, but you have misdirected your concern. The ability to hold criminals beyond their sentencing for mental capacity concerns dates to 1949. This "new" issue is little more than a recognition of a particular behavior pattern as mental rather than strictly criminal.


Interesting. Thanks for the info.


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The recidivism rate of sex offenders depends on how you define recidivism. If you define it as "any major crime" then it is very low, if you define it as, "another sex crime" then it is very high.

Also, much worse for child porn is the fact that the vast majority of porn sites have offshore servers, due to the US's ridiculous obscenity laws. It's a crime to transport obscene material across state lines, a virtual gimme with the Internet, and the test is if the material is considered obscene at the point of sale. So one guy with a credit card in rural Kansas can subscribe to your porn site and now the Feds can come after your operation in California. Many of these servers are in countries where the age of consent for porn is not 18. The pictures don't come with age labels. Thus anyone that looks at porn on the Internet on a regular basis is highly likely to have a life sentence's worth of child porn in their cache. There's not much you can do to avoid it. The Federal law has a "knowingly" clause so you're probably safe from the Feds as far as this goes, but many states do not and they can put away for life any 20-something pretty much whenever they want.

Child porn really should be a misdemeanor for pictures of age 15-17. In some states (Arizona) possession of child porn has harsher penalties (mandatory minimum 1 year per image, served consecutively) than actually molesting children does, which is absolutely absurd.


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