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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:31 am 
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David Horowitz at UC-San Diego

[youtube]8fSvyv0urTE[/youtube]
:shock:


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:39 am 
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Man, you should have put this in the other thread. That girl is off her rocker; or, as is more likely the case, she's just trying to get her 15 minutes of fame by saying something outrageous in a political and academic venue. Of course, Horowitz is an antagonistic douchebag himself, having called the Muslim Student Association a splinter faction of the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, and Hamas with the goal of radicalizing American college students.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:28 am 
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Here is the girls response:

http://fortruthforjustice.wordpress.com ... itz-event/

Basically "I didnt hear him".

I actually believe her that she's not a "Yeah lets round up the jews" type. She's more of a leftist "I hate the jews but I'd never SAY I hate jews, I'd just accuse them of being murderers, terrorists, fascists, land thieves etc etc for what they do to those poor palestinians who never have done anything wrong ever" types.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:43 am 
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Dashel:

Who knows, but she's still off her rocker. The Youth Hitler Week thing was pretty stupid.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:58 am 
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Dash wrote:
She's more of a leftist "I hate the jews but I'd never SAY I hate jews, I'd just accuse them of being murderers, terrorists, fascists, land thieves etc etc for what they do to those poor palestinians who never have done anything wrong ever" types.


I don't think this is an accurate characterization of left-wing views, Dash. There's obviously a long and repugnant history of the far Left hating Jews, but they've never been shy about saying it out loud. The people on the left who would never say they hate Jews typically don't hate Jews. Many do criticize Israel in exaggerated terms, but strenuous criticism of the state of Israel is not the same thing as anti-Semitism, no matter how much the ADL and AIPAC would like to pretend it is.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:15 am 
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Yeah she's out there Khross, no argument.

RD: You have to give me a little latitude in Hellfire on "leftist" or "left wing". I would say condemnation of Israel and favoring palestinian plights is definitely mainstream left wing. Former President Jimmy Carter mainstream anyway. But no, rank and file people who are center left wouldnt characterize themselves as hating jews.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:40 am 
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Dash wrote:
I would say condemnation of Israel and favoring palestinian plights is definitely mainstream left wing. Former President Jimmy Carter mainstream anyway.


Oh I don't disagree. I'm just saying that condemnation of Israel and favoring the Palestinians isn't the same as (or really even indicative of) anti-Semitism. Take me, for example - I think the Palestinian people have been terribly mistreated (though Hamas and the PA can kiss my *ss), that Israel's policies toward the conflict are largely illegitimate, and that political Zionism is an inherently racist philosophy. Yet I honestly don't have any anti-Semitic attitudes. There's just a clear, bright-line distinction in my mind between Jewish people and the state of Israel. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's the mainstream left-wing mindset.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:14 pm 
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Being anti-zionist /= being anti-semitic, no matter what Ben Stien says.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:37 pm 
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Man, that video was funny.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:58 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
I'm just saying that condemnation of Israel and favoring the Palestinians isn't the same as (or really even indicative of) anti-Semitism.


Let's call it a spectrum then. From "I disagree" and rational arguments to virulent hatred.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:01 pm 
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Dash wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
I'm just saying that condemnation of Israel and favoring the Palestinians isn't the same as (or really even indicative of) anti-Semitism.


Let's call it a spectrum then. From "I disagree" and rational arguments to virulent hatred.


No. It isn't part of the same spectrum, because disagreement with zionism (which is tied to imperialism), has nothing at all to do with your feelings about Jews.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:08 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Dash wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
I'm just saying that condemnation of Israel and favoring the Palestinians isn't the same as (or really even indicative of) anti-Semitism.


Let's call it a spectrum then. From "I disagree" and rational arguments to virulent hatred.


No. It isn't part of the same spectrum, because disagreement with zionism (which is tied to imperialism), has nothing at all to do with your feelings about Jews.


Should have nothing at all to do with your feelings about Jews; for some, they're inextricable tied together

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:09 pm 
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I seem to remember being called an anti-Semite more than once for questioning the secular State of Israel's policy regarding Palestinians and suggesting that North Dakota would have been a better location for the nation's creation.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:11 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Dash wrote:
Let's call it a spectrum then. From "I disagree" and rational arguments to virulent hatred.


No. It isn't part of the same spectrum, because disagreement with zionism (which is tied to imperialism), has nothing at all to do with your feelings about Jews.


Should have nothing at all to do with your feelings about Jews; for some, they're inextricable tied together


For idiots, bigots, and zionists perhaps... but I refuse to work with the lowest common denominator, especially when it cheapens the conversation.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:25 pm 
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/nodnod

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Khross wrote:
I seem to remember being called an anti-Semite more than once for questioning the secular State of Israel's policy regarding Palestinians and suggesting that North Dakota would have been a better location for the nation's creation.


LOL, I must have missed that one. That would have made growing up in Fargo more interesting...


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:46 pm 
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A good article on this video:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 137.column

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We are taught to believe that ideology is the enemy of free thought. But that's not right. Ideology is a mere checklist of principles and priorities. The real enemy of clear thinking is the script. We think the world is supposed to go by a familiar plot. And when the facts conflict with the script, we edit the facts.

So, for instance, David Horowitz is a stock villain on U.S. campuses because he deviates from the standard formula of coddling the usual victims and lionizing the usual heroes. Once a committed left-wing radical, Horowitz now resides on the right. Two of his favorite targets are academia and radical Islam. He leads an extensive network of websites, books, lecture series, pamphlets and conferences aimed at exposing the folly and dangers of both. Horowitz's detractors, and even some of his friends, sometimes roll their eyes at his confrontational tactics and rhetoric.

But that doesn't mean he's wrong. Horowitz recently spoke at UC San Diego. You can find an excerpt from his appearance on YouTube. In it, a young Muslim student from UCSD, Jumanah Imad Albahri, asks Horowitz to back up his attacks on the Muslim Students Assn. Horowitz turned the tables on her. In less than two minutes, she revealed herself as a supporter of the terrorist group Hamas. Horowitz then noted that Hezbollah, another terrorist organization, wants all Jews to return to Israel so they can be more conveniently liquidated in one place. Horowitz asks Albahri whether she's for or against that proposition. She is "for it."

I asked UCSD, via e-mail, whether the woman in question was censured in any way for endorsing bigotry and genocide, or if the video was somehow misleading. In response, I received boilerplate about how, in the tradition of Aristotle, UCSD treasures "discourse and debate" and how "the very foundations of every great university are set upon the rock-solid principles of freedom of thought and freedom of speech."

I wrote back, in part: "Thank you for your response. I must say I find it fairly non-responsive. Out of curiosity, if a UCSD student publicly called for the extermination of gays and blacks, would this be your only response as well?"

I then received an even less responsive primer on how student groups are funded on campus.

Now, I could write at length about UCSD's hypocrisy. After all, the school recently launched a "Battle Hate" campaign in response to some idiotic stunt called the "Compton Cookout" at which a fraternity held a racially offensive event off campus during Black History Month. Administrators went into overdrive, the Black Student Union issued 32 demands, the vice chancellor righteously explained to students that although the event may have been beyond the school's "legal jurisdiction," it was not beyond UCSD's "moral jurisdiction."

"We have the moral high ground!" she shouted before trying to start a chant of "Not in our community!"

Well, Albahri's statements were not only within the UCSD community, they were well inside the school's legal and moral jurisdiction. And yet in response, we don't get the familiar kabuki of official outrage. Instead we get: This endorsement of genocide is brought to you by Aristotle.

The important point here isn't the school's double standard. It's that on campuses, and in the wider intellectual culture, people can't let go of their dog-eared script. It's not that conventional racism is no longer a problem, nor is it that the civil rights era no longer resonates. But freaking out over the vestiges of familiar racism is firmly within the comfort zone of contemporary liberalism. Indeed, it's an industry. Yet when it comes to students like Albahri — and there are many like her — administrators become brainless and lost. Lacking an adequate script, they resort to bromides about Aristotle.

Off campus, liberals crave a comfortable plot in which bigoted "homegrown" white men are the villains while Muslims are scapegoats. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg was willing to bet that the Times Square bomber might turn out to be an opponent of healthcare reform.

What's the right script? Honestly, I don't know. But those perched atop the moral high ground will have to climb down to find the facts before they can write it.

jgoldberg@latimescolumnists.com

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:51 pm 
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Khross wrote:
I seem to remember being called an anti-Semite more than once for questioning the secular State of Israel's policy regarding Palestinians and suggesting that North Dakota would have been a better location for the nation's creation.

That badge for you had less to do with questioning Israel's policies and more to do with condemning them to live in ND.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:55 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Dash wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
I'm just saying that condemnation of Israel and favoring the Palestinians isn't the same as (or really even indicative of) anti-Semitism.


Let's call it a spectrum then. From "I disagree" and rational arguments to virulent hatred.


No. It isn't part of the same spectrum, because disagreement with zionism (which is tied to imperialism), has nothing at all to do with your feelings about Jews.


Disagreeing with zionism is a reasonable position and no it doesnt mean you hate Jews. But when it comes to this kind of thing:

http://zombietime.com/gaza_war_protest/

I'm kinda seeing an imbalance in perspective.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:57 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
Khross wrote:
I seem to remember being called an anti-Semite more than once for questioning the secular State of Israel's policy regarding Palestinians and suggesting that North Dakota would have been a better location for the nation's creation.

That badge for you had less to do with questioning Israel's policies and more to do with condemning them to live in ND.


Not to mention the fact that it's U.S. territory and we should never surrender any of it to another nation. Questioning Israel's policy towards Palestinians is perfectly understandable.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:25 pm 
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"This endorsement of genocide brought to you by Aristotle."

Okay, I lol'd at that.

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:05 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Ladas wrote:
Khross wrote:
I seem to remember being called an anti-Semite more than once for questioning the secular State of Israel's policy regarding Palestinians and suggesting that North Dakota would have been a better location for the nation's creation.

That badge for you had less to do with questioning Israel's policies and more to do with condemning them to live in ND.


Not to mention the fact that it's U.S. territory and we should never surrender any of it to another nation.


I've aways been facinated why people in the U.S. are surprised by the Arab world feeling the same.


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:08 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
I've aways been facinated why people in the U.S. are surprised by the Arab world feeling the same.


MAybe it's the fact that Palestine wasn't a nation at the time and no one told the Palestinians they had to leave. The plan was to create 2 nations out of that area, one Jewish and one Palestinian Arab. The Palestinians turned theirs down, left the other nation, and hoped the Arab nations would wipe out the Jewish one. Since that didn't work out, now they're complaining about haveing land stolen that they left in the first place.

The entire areas has changed hands almost constantly throughout history. It's always had a great many Jews living there, and there was no particular reason it couldn't contain the Jewish state, except for the insistence of Palestinian Arabs that they had to have political control.

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:26 pm 
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Nice rationalization.


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 2:15 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Aizle wrote:
I've aways been facinated why people in the U.S. are surprised by the Arab world feeling the same.


MAybe it's the fact that Palestine wasn't a nation at the time and no one told the Palestinians they had to leave. The plan was to create 2 nations out of that area, one Jewish and one Palestinian Arab. The Palestinians turned theirs down, left the other nation, and hoped the Arab nations would wipe out the Jewish one. Since that didn't work out, now they're complaining about haveing land stolen that they left in the first place.

The entire areas has changed hands almost constantly throughout history. It's always had a great many Jews living there, and there was no particular reason it couldn't contain the Jewish state, except for the insistence of Palestinian Arabs that they had to have political control.
Eh, I think that's a rather simplistic explanation, seeing as how the Palestinian Arabs aren't welcome anywhere else in the region either.

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