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Uncle Fester
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:19 pm 
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05 ... net-islam/

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The president's top counterterrorism adviser on Wednesday called jihad a "legitimate tenet of Islam," arguing that the term "jihadists" should not be used to describe America's enemies.

During a speech at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, John Brennan described violent extremists as victims of "political, economic and social forces," but said that those plotting attacks on the United States should not be described in "religious terms."


We are doomed, those guarding us have no idea what they are guarding us from.

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Diamondeye
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:46 pm 
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The word "Jihad" does mean struggle, and it is one of the 5 tenets of Islam; it doesn't mean "holy war" or anything like that in and of itself.

That said, they are not "victims" at all, except insofar as they are victims of what they bring on themselves.

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Khross
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
That said, they are not "victims" at all, except insofar as they are victims of what they bring on themselves.
That depends entirely on how we define "victim" and the point of relativity.

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Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.
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Hopwin
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:54 pm 
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Nice job taking that out of context.

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"Nor do we describe our enemy as 'jihadists' or 'Islamists' because jihad is a holy struggle, a legitimate tenet of Islam, meaning to purify oneself or one's community, and there is nothing holy or legitimate or Islamic about murdering innocent men, women and children," Brennan said.


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But Brennan argued that it would be "counterproductive" for the United States to use the term, as it would "play into the false perception" that the "murderers" leading war against the West are doing so in the name of a "holy cause."

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Diamondeye
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
That said, they are not "victims" at all, except insofar as they are victims of what they bring on themselves.
That depends entirely on how we define "victim" and the point of relativity.


Well I'm sure if we allow them to define victims, you'll quickly discover that they are, in fact, all victims.

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Khross
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:26 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Khross wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
That said, they are not "victims" at all, except insofar as they are victims of what they bring on themselves.
That depends entirely on how we define "victim" and the point of relativity.
Well I'm sure if we allow them to define victims, you'll quickly discover that they are, in fact, all victims.
I would suggest that your average suicide bomber is a victim, while his handler is not. Per our other discussion on the relative levels of extremism, I would point out that the guy who blows himself up for someone else's cause without access to other information is indeed a victim most of the time. This doesn't excuse the action; this doesn't deny culpability. It simply means that the expendable and exploited are victims of the power machine using them as weapons (in most cases).

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Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.
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Diamondeye
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:54 pm 
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Khross wrote:
I would suggest that your average suicide bomber is a victim, while his handler is not. Per our other discussion on the relative levels of extremism, I would point out that the guy who blows himself up for someone else's cause without access to other information is indeed a victim most of the time. This doesn't excuse the action; this doesn't deny culpability. It simply means that the expendable and exploited are victims of the power machine using them as weapons (in most cases).


I would not. The average suicide bomber does what he does for financial reward, as does the average guy out diging in an IED. This does not make them victims except in the way that a drug user who robs a liquor store is a "victim" of the guy selling the drugs.

He may, indeed, not be an extremist, but he's definitely a mercenary. Calling him a victim tends to excuse him to a degree that he does not deserve.

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Arathain Kelvar
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:58 pm 
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it is a legitimate tenet of islam, which is one of the reasons islam is so prone to violence. it is a key principle that is misinterpreted and misused quite frequently, with violent results.

violence:jihad as socialism:"promote the general welfare"
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Aizle
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:34 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
it is a legitimate tenet of islam, which is one of the reasons islam is so prone to violence. it is a key principle that is misinterpreted and misused quite frequently, with violent results.

violence:jihad as socialism:"promote the general welfare"


Interesting, I guess I never viewed the Constitution as a socialist document.
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Arathain Kelvar
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:51 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
it is a legitimate tenet of islam, which is one of the reasons islam is so prone to violence. it is a key principle that is misinterpreted and misused quite frequently, with violent results.

violence:jihad as socialism:"promote the general welfare"


Interesting, I guess I never viewed the Constitution as a socialist document.


People misinterpret "general welfare" as granting Congress socialist powers.
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