Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Or just plain Crawl to those familiar with the world of roguelike games, is a very challenging game. I've played NetHack for years, mostly on the nethack.alt.org (NAO) server in the last several years. But after something like 30 ascensions (wins), it's honestly starting to get pretty boring.
So I followed in the footsteps of quite a few other bored nethackers and decided to give Crawl a try, playing the "stone soup" 0.5.1 version on crawl.akrasiac.org (a.k.a CAO). Crawl has a pretty different design philosophy, but the interface is excellent, and with a few exceptions (The Swamp ), it successfully manages to appreciate the difference between difficult and merely tedious. It has its flaws (lol severely out-of-depth monsters!), but I've really appreciated its diversity. There are a bazillion races and roles, and unlike NetHack, the game really does play very differently depending on what race/role combo you choose to play.
I think one of the things that Crawl does well is just keeping the game simple. Your objective is to get the Orb of Zot at the bottom of the dungeon, and get back to the surface. But to enter the final area of the dungeon containing the Orb, you must open the magical lock sealing its entrance using 3 Runes of Zot. There are 15 unique runes in the dungeon, each in its own uniquely themed branch guarded by differently-themed monsters (including unique "bosses" in some cases). It's up to you which runes you pursue. Any three will work, or you could even try to get all 15 types if just like the challenge and enjoy longer games. There's even one (very difficult) branch where it's theoretically possible to get an infinite supply of runes, provided that A) you're crazy enough to try it and B) you can actually survive there long enough to harvest them. So while the objectives are simple, there are many ways to achieve them, depending on your play style and skill.
But anyway, I didn't come here just to pimp Crawl.
This morning after 86 games, I finally managed to get my first win. That sounds like a lot, but I'm actually pretty pleased that I managed a win within my first 100 games. Playing on a public server and soliciting advice from the ##crawl IRC channel on Freenode helps a lot. So does have prior roguelike experience, I'm sure, but you can't play Crawl like Nethack.
I played a Minotaur Berserker of Trog, which is a pretty classic "newbie" race/role combo. Mino Beserkers are basically straight-forward hack-and-slash melee characters. Trog, as a deity, cracks me up. He hates magic users and appreciates it whenever you kill them. He takes great delight when you burn their books, too. He's a perfect deity for dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks Minotaurs whose strategy largely consists of MINOTAUR SMASH!
I actually escaped with 4 runes in total (1 more than is strictly required), so I'm happy about that too. I got the runes from The Swamp, The Vaults, The Snake Pit, and The Slime Pit. I didn't even think about entering Hell, Pandemonium, or the Abyss, and thankfully I never got banished to the latter . I also cleared out the Crypts, The Elven Halls (except for 7, the last level), the Hall of Blades, and of course, The Hive and the Lair of Beasts.
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.5.1 (crawl-ref) character file.
1628076 Stathol the Executioner (level 26, 220/220 (222) HPs) Began as a Minotaur Berserker on Sept 9, 2009. Was a High Priest of Trog. Escaped with the Orb ... and 4 runes (of 4 types) on Sept 12, 2009!
The game lasted 16:45:38 (128518 turns).
Stathol the Executioner (Minotaur Berserker) Turns: 128518, Time: 16:45:39
HP 220/220 (222) AC 44 Str 27 Exp: 26/1103247 (6541), need: 83952 MP 18/18 EV 10 Int 10 God: Trog ***** Gold 7392 SH 0 Dex 16 Spells: 0 memorised, 27 levels left
Res.Fire : + . . See Invis. : . a - +6,+9 battleaxe (chop) {god gift} Res.Cold : + . . Warding : . Q - +6 gold dragon armour Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : + (no shield) Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : . u - +0 wizard hat Res.Elec. : + Clarity : . W - +1 cloak U - +2 pair of dwarf gloves {Dex+3} Sust.Abil.: . Rnd.Telep. : . O - +2 pair of dwarf boots Res.Mut. : . Ctrl.Telep.: . L - amulet of conservation Res.Slow : . Levitation : . H - +0,+5 ring of slaying Saprovore : . . . Ctrl.Flight: . I - ring of Oxutof {rElec rPois EV+3}
You escaped. You worshipped Trog. Trog was exalted by your worship. You were not hungry.
You visited 13 branches of the dungeon, and saw 85 of its levels.
You collected 7643 gold pieces. You spent 266 gold pieces at shops.
Inventory:
Hand weapons a - a +6,+9 battleaxe of chopping (weapon) {god gift} b - the +6,+3 battleaxe "Ruakk" {+Blink +Tele +Rage +Lev +Map rC+ rN+ MR} (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) It protects you from cold. It protects you from negative energy. It increases your resistance to enchantments. It lets you levitate. It lets you blink. It lets you teleport. It lets you go berserk. It lets you sense your surroundings. B - the +3,+6 bow of Ancient Evil {god gift, +Blink rElec rF++ rC+} (Trog gifted it to you on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts) It greatly protects you from fire. It protects you from cold. It insulates you from electricity. It lets you blink. Missiles V - 26 +2 arrows Armour u - a +0 wizard hat (worn) O - a +2 pair of dwarven boots (worn) Q - a +6 gold dragon armour (worn) U - a +2 pair of dwarven gloves of dexterity (worn) W - a +1 cloak (worn) Magical devices d - a wand of paralysis (4) f - a wand of paralysis (8) i - a wand of cold (10) j - a wand of healing (8) k - a wand of lightning (13) v - a wand of hasting (7) w - a wand of disintegration (2) A - a wand of draining (14) J - a wand of fireball (5) K - a wand of digging (6) P - a wand of disintegration (4) Y - a wand of enslavement (6) Comestibles n - 3 meat rations Scrolls m - 4 scrolls of teleportation r - 4 scrolls of fog T - a scroll of blinking Jewellery c - an uncursed ring of protection from cold e - an uncursed ring of life protection g - the ring of the Mage {Wiz MR Int+3} (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts) [ring of wizardry] It affects your intelligence (+3). It increases your resistance to enchantments. h - the ring of Prank {Hunger- rPois Dex+4 Dam+1 SInv} (You acquired it on level 1 of the Hive) [ring of sustenance] It affects your dexterity (+4). It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+1). It protects you from poison. It enhances your eyesight. l - an uncursed ring of protection from fire o - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion q - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation s - an uncursed ring of invisibility t - the amulet "Zeptoaps" {cFly AC+5 Dam+4} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime) [amulet of controlled flight] It affects your AC (+5). It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+4). z - the amulet of Ghe Shud {Ward +Rage rC+ Acc+2} (You found it on level 7 of the Vaults) [amulet of warding] It affects your accuracy (+2). It protects you from cold. It lets you go berserk. E - an uncursed amulet of resist slowing F - an uncursed ring of protection from magic G - an uncursed ring of regeneration H - a +0,+5 ring of slaying (right hand) I - the ring of Oxutof (left hand) {rElec rPois EV+3} (You acquired it on level 9 of the Lair of Beasts) [ring of evasion] It affects your evasion (+3). It insulates you from electricity. It protects you from poison. L - an amulet of conservation (around neck) N - an uncursed ring of protection from fire S - an uncursed ring of protection from cold Potions y - 4 potions of resistance D - 2 potions of healing X - 4 potions of heal wounds Orbs of Power Z - the Orb of Zot Miscellaneous p - a decaying rune of Zot x - a silver rune of Zot C - a serpentine rune of Zot M - a lantern of shadows R - a slimy rune of Zot
You have a pair of horns on your head. Your mind is acute (Int +1). You are agile (Dex +1). Your digestive system is highly specialised to digest meat. You can translocate small distances instantaneously. You are frail (-10% HP).
Message History
The hellwing gestures at you. You resist. You open the hellwing like a pillowcase!!! You kill the hellwing! Trog accepts your kill. There is a stone staircase leading up here. [Y]es or [N]o only, please.
Vanquished Creatures An orb of fire (Zot:5) 4 ancient liches (Zot:5) Boris (D:26) A Killer Klown (Zot:5) A demon lord (D:3) Norris (D:23) An electric golem (Zot:5) 19 Orb Guardians (Zot:5) 13 acid blobs 3 golden dragons A titan (Vault:8) 2 liches 3 shadow dragons 2 storm dragons (shapeshifter) 3 storm dragons 2 sphinxes An Ice Fiend (Vault:8) 2 draconian monks Francis (Crypt:4) 4 frost giants A frost giant (shapeshifter) (Vault:8) A draconian scorcher (Zot:4) 3 draconian knights 2 Executioners Louise (Snake:4) 8 tentacled monstrosities 3 skeletal dragons A draconian zealot (Zot:1) 3 fire giants 3 draconian annihilators A stone giant (shapeshifter) (Vault:8) 2 azure jellies 35 stone giants Snorg (Vault:2) 2 draconian shifters (Zot:1) A draconian caller (Zot:4) Norbert (D:14) Jozef (Swamp:4) A white draconian (Zot:2) 5 black draconians 4 pale draconians 2 quicksilver dragon zombies 4 yellow draconians (Zot:1) A mottled draconian (Zot:1) 3 purple draconians A deep elf sorcerer (Elf:6) 6 green draconians A red draconian (Zot:1) 2 vampire knights (Crypt:5) 26 yaktaur captains 3 Cacodemons 5 greater nagas (Snake:5) A salamander (D:21) Azrael (Vault:2) 6 dragons 2 storm dragon skeletons 23 vault guards (Vault:7) Josephine (D:17) 3 death cobs 9 ice dragons A golden dragon skeleton (Crypt:3) 3 great orbs of eyes Harold (Snake:4) An ice dragon (shapeshifter) (Vault:7) A hydra (shapeshifter) (Vault:2) 6 ogre-magi A death yak (Lair:8) The ghost of Sorbius the Conjurer, a powerful HuWz of Kikubaaqudgha (Snake:2) Dissolution (Slime:6) 10 hydras 5 grey snakes A storm dragon zombie (Crypt:5) A shadow dragon skeleton (D:26) An iron dragon skeleton (Crypt:3) 2 fire giant skeletons 7 griffons A deep elf high priest (Vault:7) 16 deep trolls 2 frost giant skeletons 24 centaur warriors 9 stone giant skeletons Nessos (Elf:5) 3 iron trolls An elephant slug (Lair:7) 65 skeletal warriors A grey snake zombie (Crypt:5) 4 ice devils A soul eater (D:6) 15 giant amoebae 2 elves (shapeshifter) 12 hill giants 59 dancing weapons Joseph (D:11) 21 deep elf knights A hill giant (shapeshifter) (Vault:1) 22 orc knights A giant orange brain (Vault:7) 2 large large abominations 2 shadow dragon zombies 19 naga warriors A frost giant zombie (Vault:6) 2 stone giant zombies 6 unseen horrors 7 flayed ghosts A fire giant zombie (D:24) 7 red wasps A swamp dragon (shapeshifter) (D:17) 2 iron troll skeletons A flaming corpse (Crypt:1) Urug (D:11) An orc sorcerer (D:27) 4 shining eyes An oklob plant (D:11) A human (shapeshifter) (D:22) A vampire mage (Crypt:5) 6 spectral warriors 4 necromancers An elephant slug zombie (Crypt:2) A mottled draconian zombie (Crypt:5) 10 moths of wrath A spiny worm (Vault:7) 2 hydra skeletons A death drake skeleton (Crypt:1) 3 hellions A lindwurm (shapeshifter) (Elf:3) A pale draconian zombie (Zot:5) A red draconian zombie (Crypt:5) A green draconian zombie (Crypt:5) 23 black snakes A wolf spider (D:11) 2 iron troll zombies A beast (Elf:2) A black draconian zombie (Crypt:5) A griffon skeleton (Crypt:3) A dragon skeleton (Crypt:3) 2 eyes of devastation (shapeshifter) 8 mimics 4 orange demons A reaper (Zot:1) 3 queen ants (shapeshifter) A cyclops (shapeshifter) (Vault:6) 3 eyes of devastation 42 yaktaurs 28 naga magi 9 rock trolls 137 slime creatures A queen ant (D:17) 5 very ugly things Psyche (D:10) A guardian mummy (D:18) 19 cyclopes 27 giant brown frogs Donald (D:14) A hill giant skeleton (D:20) A giant snail (shapeshifter) (Vault:1) 7 giant snails A rock troll (shapeshifter) (Vault:5) A tormentor (D:4) 2 very ugly thing skeletons 9 trolls A dragon zombie (Crypt:4) 2 iron devils A hellwing (D:1) 2 smoke demons 4 queen bees 64 ugly things A griffon zombie (Vault:5) A black snake zombie (Crypt:2) 7 two-headed ogres 3 rock troll skeletons 4 deep troll skeletons 6 komodo dragons A spiny frog skeleton (Crypt:1) 2 redbacks A two-headed ogre (shapeshifter) (D:20) 2 ettins 3 hungry ghosts A polar bear (Lair:9) 25 blink frogs 3 hill giant zombies 11 spiny frogs A very ugly thing zombie (D:20) 13 brown oozes 8 bumblebees A grizzly bear (Lair:4) 15 giant goldfish A lindwurm skeleton (Crypt:1) A death yak simulacrum (Crypt:3) 5 hippogriffs A deep troll zombie (D:18) 78 yaks 2 blink frog skeletons 9 giant slugs A hog (shapeshifter) (D:15) 5 yellow snakes A hippogriff (shapeshifter) (D:15) 2 ynoxinuls 20 deep elf conjurers 2 rock troll zombies 12 vampires 5 firedrakes 34 deep elf fighters 2 fire elementals (Vault:2) 3 neqoxecs 18 deep elf summoners A firedrake skeleton (Crypt:5) 7 soldier ants A redback zombie (Crypt:5) 31 ugly thing skeletons 17 giant blowflies A lindwurm zombie (Crypt:5) A merfolk zombie (Crypt:1) 27 wraiths 3 yaktaur skeletons 2 manticores 29 insubstantial wisps An orange crystal statue (Zot:5) 3 rock worms 15 hell hounds A hog zombie (Crypt:5) 38 ogres 2 cyclops skeletons A black bear (Lair:2) 4 phantoms 21 deep elf priests 6 freezing wraiths 3 big kobolds 3 hairy devils A giant blowfly zombie (D:10) 5 ice beasts A red devil (Elf:5) 24 swamp worms A polar bear skeleton (Crypt:1) 4 wyverns 15 necrophages 3 ugly thing zombies 3 boring beetles The ghost of jenius the Shooter, an average DGHu (D:4) A manticore zombie (Crypt:2) 4 molten gargoyles (D:20) A grizzly bear skeleton (Crypt:5) 20 giant lizards A rotting devil (D:13) A boring beetle (shapeshifter) (Vault:4) 32 centaurs A mottled dragon (Vault:1) 3 cyclops zombies A brain worm (D:18) 2 ghouls (Crypt:2) 7 gila monsters 86 nagas 8 war dogs 6 wargs A wolf (Lair:5) 7 yellow wasps 55 orc warriors A yak zombie (D:12) 26 deep elf magi An ettin zombie (Crypt:5) A giant frog skeleton (D:17) 32 giant frogs A troll zombie (Crypt:4) A bear zombie (Crypt:5) 14 swamp drakes 2 grizzly bear zombies A black bear skeleton (Crypt:1) 3 draconian skeletons (Crypt:3) 2 steam dragons A warg skeleton (Crypt:5) 2 brown snake skeletons A two-headed ogre skeleton (Crypt:1) 4 boulder beetles 52 brown snakes An eye of draining (shapeshifter) (D:22) A gargoyle (D:19) 148 killer bees Blork the orc (D:5) 5 boulder beetle zombies 3 eyes of draining A yellow wasp zombie (Crypt:1) A giant frog zombie (Crypt:2) 2 boring beetle zombies 2 warg zombies 19 big fish 11 jellyfish A black bear zombie (Crypt:3) A small abomination (D:11) A two-headed ogre zombie (D:13) 2 big kobold skeletons A giant lizard skeleton (Crypt:4) A soldier ant zombie (Crypt:5) A gila monster skeleton (Crypt:1) 12 imps A mottled dragon skeleton (Vault:7) 7 hounds 21 orc priests 2 quasits (D:13) A killer bee zombie (Crypt:5) 6 wights A giant beetle (D:10) 46 deep elf soldiers 41 orc wizards 2 gila monster zombies 13 orange rats A big kobold zombie (Crypt:1) 38 giant ants 2 giant lizard zombies (Crypt:5) 2 brain worm zombies A draconian simulacrum (Crypt:3) 2 ogre zombies (Crypt:5) 2 swamp drake skeletons A hound zombie (D:9) A lava snake (D:21) 3 scorpions 5 shadows 28 sheep A steam dragon skeleton (Crypt:3) 16 electrical eels 3 giant iguanas A naga zombie (Crypt:5) 2 swamp drake zombies 3 worm zombies (Crypt:5) 2 flying skulls 4 midges 6 worms 14 gnolls A sheep skeleton (Crypt:5) 52 snakes 7 lemures 11 manes 6 giant centipedes A giant mite (shapeshifter) (Vault:8) 8 shadow imps 53 green rats 5 white imps 3 giant mites 7 mummies 8 elf zombies 2 giant centipede zombies 19 jellies A sheep zombie (D:24) Terence (D:3) 4 oozes 7 giant eyeballs 2 giant bat zombies 19 ufetubi 72 giant bats 9 giant cockroaches 6 giant geckos A giant gecko skeleton (Crypt:1) 25 giant mosquitos A green rat zombie (Crypt:3) 131 grey rats 22 hobgoblins 25 jackals A kobold (shapeshifter) (Vault:8) 211 orcs 14 quokkas 63 rats A small snake skeleton (Crypt:1) An ant larva (shapeshifter) (Vault:8) A giant cockroach zombie (Crypt:5) 9 giant newts A giant newt skeleton (D:27) A giant spore (D:15) 26 goblins A goblin skeleton (Crypt:5) A hobgoblin skeleton (Crypt:4) 2 hobgoblin zombies (Crypt:5) 54 killer bee larvae A killer bee larva zombie (Crypt:5) 23 kobolds A kobold skeleton (Crypt:3) 2 orc skeletons A rat skeleton (Crypt:3) A rat zombie (Crypt:5) 2 small snakes 7 fungi 11 plants 3471 creatures vanquished.
Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) the royal jelly (Slime:6) An ancient lich (Zot:5) Saint Roka (Crypt:4) 2 stone giants (Vault:8) A Cacodemon (Zot:5) 5 death yaks 3 hydras 2 death oozes (Slime:6) A centaur warrior (Vault:6) A giant amoeba (Slime:6) 2 swamp dragons (Swamp:5) An orc knight (Vault:8) 4 spiny worms A black snake (Lair:10) 2 slime creatures (Swamp:3) A rock troll (Vault:7) A giant brown frog (Lair:6) A giant snail (Vault:7) A komodo dragon (Lair:10) 3 ugly things 5 blink frogs 2 spiny frogs (Lair:7) 2 bumblebees (Lair:7) A swamp worm (Swamp:1) An ogre (Crypt:4) A giant frog (D:14) An orc warrior (Crypt:4) A swamp drake (Swamp:1) 4 grey rats 3 orcs (Crypt:4) A fungus (Lair:7) A plant (Swamp:3) 58 creatures vanquished.
Vanquished Creatures (others) 2 stone giants A deep troll (Swamp:5) 2 two-headed ogres A grizzly bear (Lair:8) A naga warrior (Snake:5) A troll (Slime:6) 2 slime creatures A giant brown frog skeleton (Crypt:3) An ogre (Swamp:5) A brown ooze (Slime:6) A blink frog skeleton (Vault:7) A deep elf conjurer (Elf:1) A redback zombie (D:24) 2 ugly thing skeletons A deep elf fighter (Elf:5) An ugly thing zombie (Crypt:3) An orc priest (D:21) A hound (Lair:8) An orange rat (Crypt:5) A deep elf soldier (Elf:1) An orc wizard (Vault:6) A sheep (D:24) A giant centipede (Vault:2) A green rat (Elf:2) A shadow imp (Elf:3) A sheep zombie (D:24) 11 ufetubi 2 hobgoblins 3 jackals 9 orcs 2 giant spores 2 goblins 12 grey rats A kobold (Vault:1) A small snake (D:4) 73 creatures vanquished.
Grand Total: 3602 creatures vanquished
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
And I'm not surprised that you're a Nethack fan. I need to pull that out again. The lack of game saves, and impatience have always caused my toons an untimely death.
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Well, my advice either way is to play on one of the public servers, and hang out in the appropriate Freenode IRC channel (#nethack for NetHack, ##crawl for Crawl, #spork for Spork). Links to NAO and CAO are in the top post.
You'll occasionally get some lag between you and the server, but it's worth it. Other people can watch your game, and give you advice on your specific situation as you play. Plus, the entire session is ttyrec'd, so you can playback the entire game, or watch the games of other really good players to see how they play.
More importantly, you can't be tempted to save-scum on a public server that you have no control over. You can still start-scum, but that's definitely the lesser of two evils. Whether or not you play online, I strongly suggest that you avoid the temptation to savescum in any roguelike. Trust me, you will never get better at the game if you do, and in any case, if you're going to savescum, it's much less hassle to just play the game in explore mode or wizard mode, which has a convenient "Die? [yn] (n)" prompt. Much, much, easier than screwing around with your save files. :p
Impatience is definitely a problem, especially in NetHack. Many things in NetHack don't require skill quite so much as they require a long attention span. This is actually one of the things that (IMHO) NetHack does way too much of. For example, Ft. Ludios , Gehennom, and the Castle are just mind-numbing, but otherwise not that hard.
Of course, being completely spoiled on the game makes a -huge- difference, too.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.5.1 (crawl-ref) character file.
8215129 Stathol the Swordmaster (level 27, 558/558 (567) HPs) Began as a Mountain Dwarf Paladin on Sept 21, 2009. Was the Champion of The Shining One. Escaped with the Orb ... and 15 runes (of 15 types) on Sept 24, 2009!
The game lasted 23:58:17 (212013 turns).
Stathol the Swordmaster (Mountain Dwarf Paladin) Turns: 212013, Time: 23:58:18
HP 558/558 (567) AC 59 Str 43 Exp: 27/2862380 (18652) MP 37/37 EV 7 Int 8 God: The Shining One ****** Gold 7843 SH 18 Dex 10 (12) Spells: 1 memorised, 31 levels left
Res.Fire : + + + See Invis. : + a - +8 Blessed Blade Res.Cold : + + + Warding : . F - +8 gold dragon armour Life Prot.: + + + Conserve : + u - +2 elf large shield {AC+3} Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : + S - +2 helmet "Shrigigas" {rF+} Res.Elec. : + Clarity : . K - +2 cloak {rCorr, Cons} c - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3} Sust.Abil.: . Prev.Telep.: + d - +2 pair of boots {run} Res.Mut. : . Ctrl.Telep.: . e - amulet of rage Res.Slow : . Levitation : . t - ring "Xitocvao" {-TELE +Map rN+ EV+3 Str+4 Saprovore : . . . Ctrl.Flight: . B - ring of Holoip {Hunger- rElec rC+}
@: mighty, berserking, very slightly glowing, very quick, hasted, extremely resistant to magic, extremely unstealthy A: fast metabolism 1, teleportitis 1, screaming 1, deterioration 1 a: Divine Shield, Cleansing Flame, Summon Divine Warrior, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage, Evoke Sense Surroundings
You escaped. You worshipped The Shining One. The Shining One was exalted by your worship. You were very full.
You visited 19 branches of the dungeon, and saw 118 of its levels. You visited Pandemonium 2 times, and saw 15 of its levels. You visited the Abyss 6 times. You visited 1 Labyrinth. You visited 1 portal chamber (including bazaars).
You collected 16617 gold pieces. You spent 3794 gold pieces at shops. You used 4980 gold pieces for miscellaneous purposes.
It was...interesting. I had a few rough patches in the Hells and Pandemonium (lol torment!), but nothing hair-raisingly close to death. In the end, I admit that I ran like a little girl from Cerebov, and stole his rune without killing him. I tried to kill him, but using a 1H blade just doesn't give you enough damage output. I might have eventually pulled it off, but I didn't want to risk ending my second win and my first all-runer at the 11th hour for it.
All total, I visited and completed:
The Orcish Mines, The Elven Halls, The Lair of Beasts, The Snake Pit, the Slime Pits, The Swamp, The Hive, The Vaults, The Crypts, The Tomb, The Hall of Blades, Hell (The Vestibule), The Iron City of Dis, Gehenna, Cocytus, Tartarus, 15 levels of Pandemonium, The Abyss (6 times), and -- of course -- The Realm of Zot.
I also did one Labyrinth (but those are easy) and 14 levels of a ziggurat (starts easy; ends....not so much). I think there's only 2 or 3 players that have actually completed all 27 levels of a zig. I was happy to have just made it past 10.
Sadly, CAO (crawl.akrasiac.org) isn't running the trunk version of Crawl, so I didn't get to see the Shoals.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
That's pretty much normal if you've never played Crawl before. And it's especially so if you've never played a roguelike before.
What race/role combination(s) did you try, though? Most combinations are probably inadvisable for a new player.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
I played some sort of elf hunter for most of the tries. Then I tried the minotaur berserker a few times as well. I would eventually kill stuff or pick up some loot, but I apparently didn't read the instructions very well because I didn't know how to change my equipment.
_________________ Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions
"I love this **** team right here." -Jonathan Quick
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Heh. Fortunately Crawl has a really good in-game help utility. Most of the commands derive from abbreviation, as well. (W)ear, (w)ield, (e)at, (p)ray, etc.
Elf hunter is probably pretty tough for beginning. Hunters in general, really. Minotaur Berserker (MiBe) is a good starting role, though, especially for the incautious player. Mountain Dwarf Fighter is good for that too. A lot of people also swear by Spriggan Enchanters for the stealthy/stabby type of game, but while they can be very powerful, their fragility has really been a problem for me. I lost on one Vault:3 or 4 about a week ago -- that's roughly halfway through a normal game. Since then, I've sworn off of SpEn for awhile because it was making me want to stab Crawl in the face.
If you give it another try as MiBe, the strategy there is pretty simple:
1) Berserk early and often. 2) Get a battleaxe and plate mail as soon as you can.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
NetHack a parody by Rob Balder dot com ttto: "Pepper" by the Butthole Surfers
Skippy sank in lava, Corwin turned to slime, They could both see what was coming but they couldn't pray in time. Pinky fought a soldier ant that crawled out of his backpack They were all in love with dyin', they were doing it in NetHack. Bertha swung Mjollnir like a Valkyrie in the rain Then she lost her mind in Sokoban; a flayer ate her brain. They were all in love with dyin', usin' every keyboard function, As they tried to find the Amulet, somewhere in the dungeon.
I don't mind the text sometimes, the images it shows. Running from the Ds and Ls, and killing all the Os. Faded prints and subtle hints and fortune cookie lies. You never ID all your stuff, until your @ sign dies.
Some will die in hot pursuit, fleeing from a shop, Some will eat a rubber hose, wielded by a Kop. Some will stand there paralyzed, Some will go down punchin' As they try to find the Amulet, somewhere in the dungeon.
I don't mind the text sometimes, the images it shows. Running from the Ds and Ls, and killing all the Os. Faded prints and subtle hints and fortune cookie lies. You never ID all your stuff, until your @ sign dies.
Arthur tamed a jabberwock but died when it went feral. Zack wielded a cockatrice, he fell down in a stairwell. Theseus was butchered when he misspelled 'Elbereth,' Carmen ate Medusa, yet another stupid death. Chauncey fought the Oracle, he knew that it was chancey, Cause you ASCII stupid question and you'll get a stupid ANSI. They were all in love with dyin', they were perilously plungin' As they tried to find the Amulet, somewhere in the dungeon.
I don't mind the text sometimes, the images it shows. Running from the Ds and Ls, and killing all the Os. Faded prints and subtle hints and fortune cookie lies. You never ID all your stuff, until your @ sign dies.
It's surprisingly entertaining and true to form. It's hard to explain/imagine how a Doom roguelike can "feel right" in relation to the FPS original, but it oddly does...
It probably has something to do with the use of the Doom music and sound effects. Most roguelikes don't do sound, but for this one, it really does enrich the experience. It's also almost entirely focused on ranged combat, rather than melee (except the chainsaw, of course) which makes it feel and play quite differently from other roguelikes.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
Ive been trying this a few times I seem to get swarmed a lot. I make it to level 11 abouts it seems.
_________________ "...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Most of the time, it's a good idea to use hallways as choke points. Lots of monster types will frequently come in "packs" -- orcs, jackals, and yaks to name a few. If you pull them back into a hallway, they can only attack you one at a time.
That said, Crawl monsters are considerably more intelligent about their tactics than some roguelikes. If you are in a hallway like that and all of the monsters are of the same type, they'll let the one up front swap places with the ones behind it in order to flee when it gets low on health -- if it's a type of monster smart enough to run for its life, anyway. Similarly, consider this arrangement:
In most roguelikes (nethack for sure), this would be sufficient to force a one-on-one fight, even assuming that the orc in the doorway can move diagonally into the room. (Crawl permits diagonal movement through doorways; some roguelikes don't.) Even though the doorway orc could move diagonally, he won't in most roguelikes because his only objective is to get close enough to fight you. Once there, he's happy. But in Crawl, it will move into the room in order to permit more orcs to enter the room. Eventually, you'll find yourself flanked by at least two orcs and one in the doorway:
Unfortunately, the ones that now flank you are not quite smart enough to move around behind you to allow the last orc to get next to you, but it's still pretty decent AI. This is why you want to use hallways for anything challenging.
It also helps to know that -- unlike Nethack, for instance -- identifying scrolls, potions, etc. by simply using them is not a terrible idea in Crawl. There are some bad things that can happen (potions of poison, scroll of immolation, for instance) but even these mostly don't matter as long as you're smart about it. This usually gives you some escape options. Scrolls of teleport and blink can be used to get away from bad situations, and scrolls of teleport, at least, are fairly common. If you have a bunch of unID'd scrolls, probably at least one of them is tele. Just be aware that it's a delayed teleport. You need to read it when you are still able to survive a couple rounds of combat without dying.
Also, the dungeon layout is such that there at least 3 ways up and 3 ways down (stone staircases) and probably several "unpredictable" escape routes (escape hatches, etc.) These work like staircases, but you land somewhere random on the destination level. The point being that you are usually within a pretty short distance from so way to escape the level entirely. What's more, you can go back up by one staircase, and then come back down using another, making it easier to evade monsters that you know you can't win a fight with. A big part of getting started in Crawl is learning to recognize the relative difficult of monsters so that you know, "****, that's an orc warrior, and I'm only XL4. I should run. Now."
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
_________________ "...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Poison is generally only a problem very early on. Even then, I'll give this pointer: potions of healing are the most common potion in the dungeon. If you get poisoned early on and don't have enough hitpoints to survive the drain until it wears off, just quaff whatever potion you have the most of. If that doesn't work, try the next most common, etc. The odds of one of them being a healing potion is pretty good even if you only have 2 or 3 types so far, and it's almost certain if you've got 5 or 6. Alternately, there's a decent chance of one of them being heal wounds, which is also likely to keep you alive long enough to wait out the poison.
Alternately, if you have some way to give yourself regen, that can be enough to counteract the HP loss. If you are a berserker (or maybe just a worshiper of Trog? I can't recall the exact mechanics), going berserk will give you Regen status while it lasts, as well as doubling your max and current HP. If I were really desperate and had no healing potions, I'd try that.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
Yeah I try that. It helps sometimes. Im starting to not puta nything on until I find a scroll ofdetect curse/
_________________ "...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville
I'm level 11 now in a lair that leads to a swamp. I havea god gift, plate +1 and an +2+2 axe of chopping but im using a gods gifts hortswordo of electrocution +6 +3...?
_________________ "...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville
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), it successfully manages to appreciate the difference between difficult and merely tedious. It has its flaws (lol severely out-of-depth monsters!), but I've really appreciated its diversity. There are a bazillion races and roles, and unlike NetHack, the game really does play very differently depending on what race/role combo you choose to play.
. I also cleared out the Crypts, The Elven Halls (except for 7, the last level), the Hall of Blades, and of course, The Hive and the Lair of Beasts.
