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 Post subject: Re: I Love Baseball
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:29 am 
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I understand that officials call play-off games differently than they do regular season games, however, those decisions revolve around penalties, not around outcomes, and they are called that way in the interests of keeping the best players on the field to have a true contest of best vs. best as championship level sports should be, and to allow the players to dictate the pace of the game instead of the officials. What you are advocating is outcomes based prejudice which places an emphasis on have more cumbersome and involved officiating instead of less, which runs counter to your examples. The rough equivalent of what you are advocating translated to football, would be ruling Eli Manning "in the grasp" against the Patriots in the Super Bowl rendering his pass top David Tyree unthrown, or ruling Tyree's amazing catch incomplete in favor of giving the Patriots an undefeated season, which is an accomplishment far more rare, and far greater than any single individual accomplishment in baseball, simply because it was a more desirable and historic outcome. As to the bit about robots? Your statement about irony is horribly misplaced. It really wouldn't bother me one bit. Take that one up with the Umpire's Union, which has the strong backing of the Player's Union.

As far as your crazy notion about red flags and what not? Again, take it up with the Umpires Union, which still has the strong support of the Player's Union. You are advocating something that is unobtainable, and has been collectively bargained against. While I don't have any problem with the idea, everyone in a position of authority in the game does. You'll have to deal with them instead of a guy on the internet. If you want me to sign some sort of petition, however, I will.

To the last bit: Read what I wrote, not what you wanted to read. I don't advocate never making changes to the game simply because of tradition, even though baseball is strongly dependant on tradition and history as reference points. More so than in any other sport, and to deny that is lunacy. It is the reason 500 home runs, .300 lifetime batting average, 3000 hits, 300 wins, and 3000 strikeouts are regarded as sacred milestones. Trying to strip the game of it's tradition and history is to destroy what makes it Major League Baseball. However, if changes need to be made, I'm all for it, but never retroactive rules changes that alter the outcome of a game which has already been played. If we decide to have instant replay from this day forward, great. But we can't have instant replay from this day forward, and apply it to yesterday's games which were played under a different agreed on set of rules.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:05 am 
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There's nothing sacred about anything in baseball these days. I think you lost me there. Stripping the game of history and tradition? We were just stripped of history last night.

Even though it's a fantasy world that isn't even close to reality, I'd love to have unbiased officials for the most part, as I said before. However, when it comes to the unknown, I don't think officials should be making calls that screw extremely rare circumstances up, unless they are 100%, without a doubt sure of the accuracy of their call. Perhaps that's a more accurate statement that reflects the way I'm feeling. I don't feel they should just pick sides. I'm just saying they should use discretion when they aren't completely sure about something, specifically when they are in key situations like last night (though the word "key" is a bit of an understatement). If they are delusional and think they are right about something, but it turns out they are wrong, so be it.

If there's any doubt, you side with the defendant. Innocent until proven guilty. Until you are 100% sure he didn't throw a perfect game, you call that out. Yes, this is a special circumstance. Yes, it should be treated as such. We aren't even talking about changing the outcome of a game. Tigers win and he doesn't have a perfect game, or Tigers win and he does have a perfect game. The only outcome that changed was Galarraga being screwed over harder than anything I've ever seen in the history of sports.

Where do we stop if we make exceptions for people on the verge of a perfect game with 2 outs recorded in the 9th inning? I'll tell you where. Umps stop it as they see fit, considering they already have all the power to do this to begin with (and they do so already, whether you want to admit it or not, whether or not it's right or wrong). It's not like it's going to be up to the fans to begin with. People can argue all day over other calls, but how is that situation any different than the one we're in right now? We still have fans b*tching hard. I guess I fail to see why it's an issue. It's not like the ump would come out and say "I called that a strike when it was a ball. I just wanted to let all of you hardcore fans know what tricks I was up to." Hell, it's rare for an ump to come out and admit he did wrong. You act like it'd change the game for the worse. Let's face it, this already happens now. You simply don't hear about it because it's not something an ump is going to come forward with. It's part of being an official. You determine the way the game is called and nobody else.

By the way, penalties and outcomes go hand in hand. A 5 on 3 powerplay in hockey equates to about a 50% chance of a goal. Hand two of those to one team over the other team and it's as much as a guaranteed goal as you can get in the sport of hockey (even more so than a penalty shot). Being objective when it comes to calling penalties probably results altered outcomes every single hockey game, not to mention the worst offender, the NBA. I'm not saying they should be completely objective. I just feel being completely unbiased and perfect leads to some bad things as well in the sports world. They need to use their brain. That's why they use humans to officiate. Umpires behind home plate are all over the map with their strike zones. They make up their own calls as they go. I don't see how being a little more lenient in extremely rare circumstances, like last night, would be that damaging to the sport.

I'm officially done with the topic though, as I'd prefer to not think about how screwed up baseball is. I can barely even stand to watch the sport these days. Officiating has been terrible in the sport lately, and Selig shows no sign of wanting to improve it, other than his BS obligatory press release from earlier today. Selig is more damaging to baseball than any one bad call. He has single handedly ruined baseball for me (not even counting last night for being a reason).

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:33 am 
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I love my wife.

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 Post subject: Re: I Love Baseball
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:42 am 
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The call wasn't nearly as bad as any of you are making it out to be. The call would have been easier had the pitcher not shifted during the catch, since he put himself in the umpire's line of sight. Mistakes happen. Life goes on. But, I'll tell you what, Roophus ...

I'll give you your perfect game if you give me the 2 defensive pass interference calls that didn't happen in the Patriots/Giants Super Bowl with less than a minute on the clock.

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 Post subject: Re: I Love Baseball
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:59 am 
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Khross wrote:
The call wasn't nearly as bad as any of you are making it out to be. The call would have been easier had the pitcher not shifted during the catch, since he put himself in the umpire's line of sight. Mistakes happen. Life goes on. But, I'll tell you what, Roophus ...

I'll give you your perfect game if you give me the 2 defensive pass interference calls that didn't happen in the Patriots/Giants Super Bowl with less than a minute on the clock.


And you can have those if you erase Roethlisberger's TD that was about a foot short, and the BS Offensive Holding call erasing a 40 ydish completion in the '05 SB.

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 Post subject: Re: I Love Baseball
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:49 am 
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Müs wrote:
Khross wrote:
The call wasn't nearly as bad as any of you are making it out to be. The call would have been easier had the pitcher not shifted during the catch, since he put himself in the umpire's line of sight. Mistakes happen. Life goes on. But, I'll tell you what, Roophus ...

I'll give you your perfect game if you give me the 2 defensive pass interference calls that didn't happen in the Patriots/Giants Super Bowl with less than a minute on the clock.
And you can have those if you erase Roethlisberger's TD that was about a foot short, and the BS Offensive Holding call erasing a 40 ydish completion in the '05 SB.
Exactly. Bad Calls happen. It's not as easy as the high speed camera makes it seem.

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 Post subject: Re: I Love Baseball
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:07 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Khross wrote:
The call wasn't nearly as bad as any of you are making it out to be. The call would have been easier had the pitcher not shifted during the catch, since he put himself in the umpire's line of sight. Mistakes happen. Life goes on. But, I'll tell you what, Roophus ...

I'll give you your perfect game if you give me the 2 defensive pass interference calls that didn't happen in the Patriots/Giants Super Bowl with less than a minute on the clock.


And you can have those if you erase Roethlisberger's TD that was about a foot short, and the BS Offensive Holding call erasing a 40 ydish completion in the '05 SB.


There is Offensive Holding on virtually every single play, actually. They just flagged the wrong guy. :P

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:14 pm 
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I think this fits here. Something that LK should read, anyway. :D From Why Iis Baseball So Much Better Than Football? by Tom Boswell.

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49. Baseball has no penalties at all. A home run is a home run. You cheer. In football, on a score, you look for flags. If there's one, who's it on? When can we cheer? Football acts can all be repealed. Baseball acts stand forever.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:34 pm 
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Aethien wrote:
I think this fits here. Something that LK should read, anyway. :D From Why Iis Baseball So Much Better Than Football? by Tom Boswell.

Quote:
49. Baseball has no penalties at all. A home run is a home run. You cheer. In football, on a score, you look for flags. If there's one, who's it on? When can we cheer? Football acts can all be repealed. Baseball acts stand forever.



That's the one big thing I don't like about instant replay in football. It takes away the spontaneity of the celebration if the play/score is in any way in doubt. You have to wait 10 minutes before you can celebrate.

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 Post subject: Re: I Love Baseball
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:12 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Müs wrote:
Khross wrote:
The call wasn't nearly as bad as any of you are making it out to be. The call would have been easier had the pitcher not shifted during the catch, since he put himself in the umpire's line of sight. Mistakes happen. Life goes on. But, I'll tell you what, Roophus ...

I'll give you your perfect game if you give me the 2 defensive pass interference calls that didn't happen in the Patriots/Giants Super Bowl with less than a minute on the clock.


And you can have those if you erase Roethlisberger's TD that was about a foot short, and the BS Offensive Holding call erasing a 40 ydish completion in the '05 SB.


There is Offensive Holding on virtually every single play, actually. They just flagged the wrong guy. :P


Which is why Offensive Holding is a BS call like 95% of the time. Especially when its away from the actual action of the play.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:16 pm 
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Nah, it's a trick of getting good enough at it that you keep your hands inside your body. It also helps to wear line gloves that are the same color as your opponents jersey. At any length, once your hands and arms shoot outside of you opponents body, even for an instant, you are almost garenteed a penalty, which is why footwork is so important.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:22 pm 
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Aethien wrote:
I think this fits here. Something that LK should read, anyway. :D From Why Iis Baseball So Much Better Than Football? by Tom Boswell.

Quote:
49. Baseball has no penalties at all. A home run is a home run. You cheer. In football, on a score, you look for flags. If there's one, who's it on? When can we cheer? Football acts can all be repealed. Baseball acts stand forever.


Man, that guy just hates Football.

I could probably come up with a hundred reasons why baseball sucks too. Especially if I used "Nickname A is better than nickname B, and the rules are incomprehensible" a dozen times. :p

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Aethien wrote:
I think this fits here. Something that LK should read, anyway. :D From Why Iis Baseball So Much Better Than Football? by Tom Boswell.

Quote:
49. Baseball has no penalties at all. A home run is a home run. You cheer. In football, on a score, you look for flags. If there's one, who's it on? When can we cheer? Football acts can all be repealed. Baseball acts stand forever.


Man, that guy just hates Football.

I could probably come up with a hundred reasons why baseball sucks too. Especially if I used "Nickname A is better than nickname B, and the rules are incomprehensible" a dozen times. :p

Actually, people did try to respond with similar lists, but they just don't come off as well.

Because baseball really is better than football. :P

(And, I should point out that some of his reasons have been diluted or invalidated in the 23 years since it came out - steroids no longer being the sole province of football, additional playoff teams, etc. But, he's still correct!)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:59 pm 
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All of his reasons are trumped by: Baseball is boring as hell. ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:22 pm 
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Müs wrote:
All of his reasons are trumped by: Baseball is boring as hell. ;)


Plebeian.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Müs wrote:
All of his reasons are trumped by: Baseball is boring as hell. ;)


Plebeian.


Well... it is :P

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:45 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Müs wrote:
All of his reasons are trumped by: Baseball is boring as hell. ;)


Plebeian.


Well... it is :P

No worries, more room at the stadium for me:
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16. A crowd of 30,000 in a stadium built for 55,501 has a lot more fun than a crowd of 55,501 in the same stadium.


(He's actually referring specifically to the old Baltimore Memorial Stadium. In the 4+ years I went to games there, I don't know that they ever really got even 30,000. It was great, could pretty much sit wherever you wanted.)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:28 am 
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I'm liking how well the Jays are performing. Taking 2 from the Yankees is a good sign, they're slowly making ground on the Wild Card. Although its going to be pretty tough down the stretch.

Hey Rynar, or someone else who knows more about baseball than me...whats the deal with the NL Central having 6 teams and the AL West only having 4? Couldn't they move the Reds or the Brewers to the Al West to even out the divisions? That's always bugged me.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:04 am 
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Elessar wrote:
Hey Rynar, or someone else who knows more about baseball than me...whats the deal with the NL Central having 6 teams and the AL West only having 4? Couldn't they move the Reds or the Brewers to the Al West to even out the divisions? That's always bugged me.


Scheduling purposes. With the length of the baseball season taken into consideration (seven months), it was deemed in the best interests of the game to try and establish a schedule in a way that would shorten the season as much as possible. The best way to do that was to make sure there were an even amount of teams in both leagues such that it would eliminate off days.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:45 am 
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The thing that gets me is why the Pirates are in the Central. If anyone should be in the Eastern division, it should be them. They could trade with Washington.

Remember when the Braves used to be in the West?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:19 pm 
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/Shrug

Tigers used to be in the AL East. I blame Bud, this is all his fault.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:07 pm 
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You guys let me down.

No one had anything to say about Strasburg debut performance? No one saying he's the next great thing, or blasting him for being nothing but hype?

I watched the game, and was fairly impressed by his composure. I liked that he got better after the HR.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:11 pm 
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I think he is the real deal. Triple digit fastball, killer hook and a change? As long as he stays healthy and has control, he will become one of the best pitchers in the league. I'm a believer.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:52 pm 
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If he is still pitching the same way at the end of the year and not on the DL. The kid could be freaking magic.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:14 pm 
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Uinan wrote:
You guys let me down.

No one had anything to say about Strasburg debut performance? No one saying he's the next great thing, or blasting him for being nothing but hype?

I watched the game, and was fairly impressed by his composure. I liked that he got better after the HR.

Sorry, I've had a bad week, didn't even realize his debut had come and gone. Sounds pretty interesting. I've got some free Dodgers tickets to choose, and one of the games is a Nationals game, so I'm gonna get those and hope that he's pitching that day.

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