The Glade 4.0

http://biggovernment.com/dmitchell/2010 ... ore-134918




Former communists know better then want to be commies

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

Experience is the best teacher.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I misread the thread subject as "Texas in Russia".

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

Given my Dyslexia and poor spelling that could have easily happened.

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

Russia has a large trade surplus, so a flat tax and no CGT tax works fine for them, since every ruble earned through investment will eventually end up used for consumption in Russia anyway. The US, with its massive deficit, would have problems, as all the money that gets sent overseas would not be taxed.

So, we have a poor system which incentivizes the consumption of, but not the creation of, wealth and depends on deficit spending as one of it's core mechanisms, which has led to the flight of industry, and dependance on foriegn energy... and we have to work within the confines of the broken system, and refuse to correct the problems which caused them, because that's the system we use?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Yeah, that is how I read it too, with the question mark at the end.

The powers that be do not want to rock the boat by fixing the problem, as that would change the ways in which they generate wealth to something unrecognizable to them. This new system no matter what it is, no matter what its benefits, is therefore dangerous, unreliable, and to be prevented at all risk to everyone else.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

I I have to pay, say, 20% extra to buy American but don't have to pay that tax to buy Chinese, why would I ever buy American? Conversely, if the consumption tax does apply to imports, then the US becomes the most protectionist country on the planet as you have to pay the 20% and all the taxes they levy.

Just set the CGT at the same rate as the income tax and remove double taxation. That is, if you paid CGT on it, you don't have to pay income tax. Problem solved.

It's a cycle that reinforces itself. The problem is the political system we have, which in turn is designed to best benefit those in power who created it and run it. Combine the general apathy of the populace with the narcissism of those who seek political power and you have the perfect cocktail of a perpetually bloated government which makes sure all governmental and business leaders convince you that they need what they get to do their jobs for the benefit of society.

And you all buy it, and sadly they use make-believe partisan ideological rhetoric to convince conservatives that corporate executives couldn't possibly do their jobs unless they were not only making 100 million a year due to some 'illusory' free market that you've already admitted doesn't exist, but also should have absolutely no accountability...and you actually defend them.

And on the other hand, they convinced liberals that they shouldn't be able to defend their life and liberty with a weapon, because all weapons are inherently dangerous and must be banned, but a natural instinct is to suppress any challenge to one's own power; and they shouldn't see their nation's borders enforced and defended, because everyone is a glowy shiny nice person who en masse apparently have no detrimental effect on the culture of a nation trying to maintain an educational and economic superiority in the world; and certainly the majority should roll over to all the irrational complaints of a minority simply because the minority has realized they've developed an industry in name-calling and a powerful cultural bullying, because the majority have turned into such incredibly weak-willed and cowardly pissants that they no longer have any balls.

But please, carry on with 'conservative' and 'liberal'.

lol

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The Dude abides.

Ok, I'm going to apologize in advance for being blunt here, but there's just one small problem with this sentiment, which I should add you've expressed multiple times and received the same exact comment I'm about to make each time you've expressed it; so, just to be clear, I'm going to be blunt and tell you that a CGT is double taxation no matter how you do it, especially since you, you know, ALREADY PAID TAXES ON THE MONEY YOU'RE INVESTING IN THE FIRST PLACE.

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That would be true if you were taxed on the total value of the asset at the time of realization, but you're not. You're only taxed on the gain, so the initial amount invested is not taxed again.

Except, as we've noted, CGTs don't account for inflation and "paper gains" realized because of the deleterious effect of inflation on currency values relative to initial investment.

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Taxing inflationary gains may be a bad idea (and I don't object to indexing to avoid this), but it's not the same as double taxation. Also, I believe long-term cap gains are at least partially indexed already.

And taxing capital gains is demonstrably bad in the first place. It's amusing that the tax is actually one of the vehicles that requires inflation to operate at all levels of the economy in the United States.

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I can't remember the last time I said something like this, but aren't invested monies tax-deductible? You don't pay income tax on money you put into investments, only when you cash those investments out. They could just assess CGT on the gains you make from the investment and then when you cash it out you only pay income tax if the CGT assessed is lower than the income tax would have been on the original amount.

Where can I get some money I don't have to pay tax on?
The only deal anywhere near that is retirement accounts, and you have paltry amounts you can use for that, and you still have to pay when you withdraw.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Then isn't the current system triple taxation, not double? You pay when you get the money, CGT when you put it in, and then income tax again when you withdraw it?

You pay capital gains tax when you realize the gain.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Yes, no, sort of, and mostly yes again.This is ... not how it works.

You earn money. You pay income taxes. Theoretically, post-income tax money is free capital. Free as in liberty not free as in beer. You invest the money. You capitalize that investment for a gain. You pay taxes on the absolute dollar difference between what you put and what you take out at 15, 20, or 39.6% depending on duration and type of investment. In some cases, this can mean the tax actually exceeds, adjusted for inflation, the actual gains of your investment.

However, and this is where it becomes particularly insidious, the majority of people are invested in mutual, index, and bond funds. Now, these guys pay 39.6% on their year to year gains for your fund because they all count as short term investments. Indeed, this is one of the primary reasons your funds lag behind the market and suffer more in a downturn. They are taxed ridiculously aggressively. But, you're not personally "paying taxes" because this all comes out of the "fund's" pockets. Now, later in life, since you probably have a 401(k) or a 403(b) or what have you ...

When the gains from that fund become income, you're taxed as if it's income. And since it's non-wage income, it's most likely subject to the AMT at highest marginal.

So, yes, 3 times, but it doesn't quite work how you think.

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I just don't understand why someone who lives on investments and does no actual work should pay a smaller percent of their income than someone who busts their *** every day building houses, enforcing the law, or educating people.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Because they've already been taxed on the money they used to invest in the first place?

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Holy shitsnacks!

Maybe the people busting their asses are paying too much as well? How about bringing their load down instead of jacking up? I know it runs contrary to the progressive ideal, but its a real great idea.

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

Because there's nothing special about working hard. So what if someone "busts their ***"? Physical labor is not some sacred cow.

Not only that but the guy that "busts his ***" can have investments too. Why should he get taxed on that money a second time at a higher rate?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

tougher to unionize investment bankers? "No pay no paper shuffle!"

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore