The Glade 4.0

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Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!

Adopt me quickly Squirrel Girl, I'm about to run out of acorns.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

If the state controller won't comply just fire him. That's one less employee he'd have to pay 455/week

Sounds like a thoughtless move, more doing something drastic to get his way then doing something that's reasonable and is going to help.

You have to be competative for your market if you want decent people.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Man, everything coming from California about finances is bad bad news. What is the future looking like? Is there a plan or are they going to go bankrupt or something? I feel sorry for the govt employees there.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Maybe that is the point Ror. He may not be able to fire employees as easily as he can push their wages to the point that they quit. After a month one counts the reduction in workforce and can continue closer to normal pay.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

California is bankrupt and in need of serious fiscal and political reform if it wishes to continue forward. It needs a serious reduction in government employees at all levels, as well as sane tax policy and a major decrease in public "services".

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Can't. In California the Controller is an elected constitutional officer. He can be recalled by a special election, but not fired by the Governor.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

The NYT seems to think Illinois is even worse shape then California.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38072919/ns ... ork_times/

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

I thought the legislature didn't create a budget for the year and this is his way of creating pressure on them to do so?

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I think there have been two years in the last two dozen when a budget has been in on time. The legislature is consistently late, and they argue about it for a couple of months past the due date regularly.

Yes, this is a tactic to force the strongly Democratic legislature to pass a budget acceptable to the minority Republicans, the Proposition 13 law requires a two-thirds majority to pass a budget or raise taxes - and the Democrats do not have a two-thirds majority of the legislative votes needed to do either.

So, the Governor hurts the people he can, the State employees, until he gets his way and the budget is passed. This time he wants the hurting to go on forever in his name - in the form of dictating contract reductions without collective bargaining, which he has refused to do until the last couple of weeks, and even then his team has gone in with a set of non-negotiable take-back only orders. There is to be no real negotiating, his way or the highway.

Reportedly, the Union team went in with many proposals to save the State money, and they are being tossed out with no discussion by the Governor's team, we don't see the Governor as playing by the rules.

I don't care how good his movies are, I won't be watching another one. The little man complex (he is about 5'8" in real life, wears platform cowboy boots on a regular basis) has left him with a deep need to win against the State employees. Right now our last best line of defense is the State Controller, bless him.

Oh, and all the empty rhetoric about needing pension reform - is pretty empty. The majority of those six figure retirements are going to people he appointed to jobs the great majority of us will never see. The paperwork I've seen shows the average state pension is less than 2k/month.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

What alternatives do you have to reach solvency in your state?

Perhaps, rather than siding with your union automatically, you should take a bigger-picture view of the future.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

The fact that Governor refuses to entertain the Union's proposals on saving the State money, which could save the State more than the cuts he is proposing is what bothers me the most.

The Union is not the best source of information, and I've always been a little thorn in the Union rep's side by asking the questions they avoid addressing. I am not a stereotypical Union man, and a lot of the stuff they do in our name embarrasses the crap out of me.

The big picture, the long view, the road to solvency would be to destroy the legislature and patronage system we have now and rebuild it on fiscally responsible lines. More money is wasted on legislative hog-swapping and contributor payoffs every year than the entire State employee payroll. The ongoing attacks on the State employees whenever there is a budget shortfall is just hitting the whipping boy.

The bigger/longer view anyone proposes always has protected sacred cows and workarounds to make sure that everyone except the author's interests foot the bill.

We need an extremely competent independent auditor to come in, do a full no holds barred analysis, and set a game plan for California's future. This would include delving into the things that have worked the best in the past (tax cuts that encouraged growth and increased revenue for starters) and eliminating strategies that sound good but end up just costing more with no long term benefits.

Right now there is a possibility my Department will be eliminated and the tasks (and costs) ineffectively absorbed by three other Departments while the only real savings effect would be in the elimination of the rent money we pay on the building. It is a political move that saves very little, costs a lot more initially as the staff redeployed to other Departments to do the same tasks that will still need to be done. But hey, we eliminated a whole 350 person Department, go us, and pay no attention to the auditor behind the green curtain.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Unfortunately, Micheal, the state isn't in a position where a few drops of "saved money" make a bit of difference in a empty bucket with a hole in the bottom. The unions, and as an extension their members, put themselves in this situation by refusing to allow the problems to be addressed until they were too late. Now the whole house of cards is coming down. The tax payers aren't willing to pay you any more. I'm very sorry you find yourself in this situation. I consider you a friend. But regardless of your personal plight, this is an unfortunate necessity. Your union doesn't have the tax payers of California in it's best interests, and the tax payers know this.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I think the bigger issue is stagnant wages in the private sector. If salaries had kept pace with inflation then the amount collected through taxation would cover the existing programs. That is not to say that government is not a wasteful money glutton but these crunches would be markedly less painful and the coffers would be closer to break-even at least.

http://www.nikutai-to-kageboushi.com/di ... ovrty.html
http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+a ... (1964-2004)
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2006/wolff120606.html

and a dissenting view to balance:
http://macromarketmusings.blogspot.com/ ... -with.html

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Indexing real wages to inflation defeats the purpose of inflationary monetary policy.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... on_LEADTop

Federal employee's but I think the principle is about the same.

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

whoa, déjà vu

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In time, this too shall pass.

Once again I fear you misunderstand my situation. I could retire tomorrow, it would be tight, and I would have to budget a lot tighter than I do now. As of my last birthday (55 with more than 20 years service in) I now qualify for full medical benefits. I would prefer to keep on working for a longer period so that I receive a larger pension and put more in savings. I own my home outright, I am in no danger of losing it. What little I have on my credit card is there to build my credit rating up, which I destroyed years ago. I will be okay. Thank you for your concern Rynar, but I'm not the one to feel sorry for.

Once more you focus your enmity toward the Unions and the State workers. While I admit the Unions have pulled a lot of doozies over the years, and we are probably a little overpaid at current market, we were not so overpaid three years ago. We haven't gotten a salary boost, the market did a downturn. Wages in general have decreased, and ours have too, by 15% through furloughs if you've followed it. Now we are making minimum wage, and if the rulings go against the Governor when we are paid our back wages, this foolish and cruel move will result in our being awarded double damages. In the meantime a lot of State Workers will lose their homes, cars, and whatever else the credit companies decide to take because of the Governor's don't care who I hurt to get my budget passed tactics. Most private sector workers have taken cuts of at least 15%. I will have to dip into savings, eat less and at home a lot more, and cut all entertainment spending during this period.

You also misunderstand the problems with our budget. Yes, there is a big deficit. Yes it needs to be closed. The few drops of saved money that the cuts the Governor is asking of the pensions and the salaries, is a red herring. He is out to punish the State Workers, to avenge the lack of success he and his mentor, Pete Wilson, had in breaking the Unions. This is not about the State Workers making too much money, this is about the Unions, and breaking them so they can say they did it. Then they will really go to town on the State Workers, who they despise. The real reason they despise us? We're protected from being fired at their whim.

The big problem is the Legislature spending more than the State takes in, every year, then borrowing to make up the difference. The six figure pensions they talk about are only real to the Governor's appointees, ex-Legislators, the directors of Departments and the chiefs of staff of the Legislators, and a few high ranking correctional officers and top cops. Most of us will be lucky to see $2k a month, most of us won't. If the Governor gets every one of the cuts he is asking for it won't make a damn bit of difference. The Legislature will snap it up and spend the savings three times as soon as they are announced.

If the Governor and his appointees would stop supporting the payoff system by awarding the big contracts that do almost nothing to better the State to their cronies, friends and campaign contributors, most of that deficit would disappear. So many of the contractors we have been forced to hire because we can't hire permanent employees that we can do background checks on and screen out the unqualified, turn out to be just that, unqualified. We are mandated to do a job, sometimes it is even related to what we do. We are told we have to hire contractors and the contractors will send their 'best people' to do the job. The contractors are paid more than twice what we the equivalent State Worker receives in salary and benefits. Frequently they turn out to be the contractor's siblings, cousins, girlfriends, boyfriends, that usually don't even have the education you have to have to get a State job in those positions. They are paid huge amounts and are effectively useless. We can't even fire them for cause without a lot of documentation and terminating the whole contract. If we terminate the whole contract we have to start the whole bidding process over again, explain why we sabotaged our mandate, and answer a lot of questions as to why we fired their mistress. Note: a very few of the contractors are damned good at what they do, and their work is what is held up as the norm, it isn't anywhere close to the norm.

Yes, the corruption in the system is the big problem. The corruption comes from both parties, and the worst practitioners are the long time legislative staffers who steer the legislators to where the biggest campaign contributions come from.

But yeah, believe the Governor's spin doctors, it is all the problem of the Unions and the State workers.

You are so damn gullible my friend, you want to believe their version of the facts. The Unions out here are not in any way shape or form as powerful or corrupt as the ones in your neck of the woods. They aren't girl scouts either, but you are judging our situation based on your state/regions/area's history. There are some parallels, but the situations are not identical.

There are problems throughout the system. Ask yourself why they come back to the Unions and State Workers time after time after time. We are an easy and familiar target and anything we say in our defense is automatically disbelieved. Their figures are always overstated and almost always apply to a very small percentage of the workforce. It takes the attention away from where the real problems lie. Distract, divert and divide - it works so well.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

I foresee a state level version of The Fed.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

It's too bad the the legislators felt no great need to pass a budget so that the state would have a budget from which to pay its employees. It's too bad that the Governor is required by law to issue the order he did. Color me surprised that the State Controller disagrees with the CA District Court, the CA Appellate Court and the CA Supreme Court rulings that the government can't pay folks when the government doesn't have any money.

I bet the unions that renegotiated their contracts are happy they did now. Those workers realized that CA's budget crisis isn't some myth or that the taxpayers (their employers) should find a way to pay their salaries when they don't have salaries of their own. I guess the 37,000 state workers who agreed to pension reforms, in order to save jobs and huge future budget deficits, is worth it when the payback is being paid something more than minimum wage.

In the private sector, if you get your pay cut because profits are down, your hours reduced because the company overextended itself or the company you work for goes bankrupt (as CA is), you take it; you don’t receive back pay once the economy rebounds and you don't get interest free loans until your pay comes back to where it was before.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

It hasn't brought a budget in on time but once in the last 20 years. This is normal.



He is not so required. He may do this. He tried to do it last year, the first Governor to try the minimum wage ploy, and the Controller blocked it. Governor Wilson ordered warrants to be issued, IOUs, to both the employees and the suppliers of the State. Many small businesses failed when they tried to pay their bills with those very same IOUs. Some of the banks honored the IOUs with a no interest loan so that you could receive your normal pay and the bank would collect from the State when the budget was passed.



The rulings have gone both ways on several of the ploys to of various Governors with every one of those courts over the years. It is a crap shoot as far as which way they will rule.



As a matter of fact, no. The membership is divided and there is talk of lawsuits against the Unions that agreed to the contracts. it will come to naught, but to believe the membership of the various Unions is universally happy is mistaken.



And that, dear Vindicarre, was my life before I went to work for the State 22 years ago. For the last 18 months my hours have been reduced, and my pay cut by the percentage the hours have been reduced. The State did not give us interest free loans, we were forced to give such loans to the State. The banks that chose to give them to us did so of their own volition, they are not State entities. As for not receiving back pay once things get better, depends upon the company and the circumstances. Some companies in the past have used that very technique to retain employees in times of fiscal difficulty, offering incentives if they stick with the company. Sometimes the companies fail, as one I worked for almost 30 years ago did, and the incentives don't come to fruition, sometimes the company pulls it together and rewards its loyal employees.

Uncharacteristically, your sting lacks its usual burn, are you feeling well?

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Ehh, I'd rather refuse and be fired for it.

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Ron Paul 2012

Normal doesn't mean right. Dysfunctional doesn't mean effective. 23 out of the past 24 years the legislators haven't been able to do their jobs regarding the budget - you'd think the voters in the state would do their part and vote the buffoons out of office...



You're right, I misspoke, the Gov. isn't required by law to issue the order, he's empowered by law to issue the order.
The State controller refused in 2008 to comply with the order, the Governor's administration sued and won with a decision reached in 2009. Chiang (the controller) appealed June 21, and lost with a ruling on July 2.


The CA supreme Court ruled on 2003 [White v. Davis] that without a state budget with money appropriated for payroll, wages can be withheld to the federal minimum.
Chiang refused in 2008, was sued, and he lost in district court.
Chiang appealed, he lost the court of appeals.
Seems pretty clear to me that the courts have ruled consistently.


Really, who's binging these suits? Against their own unions, or against the unions that didn't toe the line? I'd be interested in seeing some evidence of your assertions. As for "the membership of the various Unions is universally happy", I think everyone can see the obvious weakness in using that as an argument.


In real life, your employer would have gone out of business long ago.


My post wasn't specifically directed toward you, so there's no need to make it seem personal. As for "sting", "burn" and comments about my health, save the snide, passive aggressive comments for someone else.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Terrible idea. With this method, you only lose employees that can quickly find another job. In other words, you only lose your good people.