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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:24 am 
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Monte wrote:
Question - do white people have advantages that non whites do not? Any at all?


Quite the opposite. Minorities have a great many advantages over me, if you look at race alone.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:28 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Monte wrote:
Question - do white people have advantages that non whites do not? Any at all?


Quite the opposite. Minorities have a great many advantages over me, if you look at race alone.

The size of their junk doesn't count. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:36 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Monte wrote:
Question - do white people have advantages that non whites do not? Any at all?


Quite the opposite. Minorities have a great many advantages over me, if you look at race alone.


No, they don't.

Assuming you are a white male, you are significantly more likely to be hired. You are significantly less likely to be prosecuted for an equivalent crime. If you are prosecuted, you are less likely to be convicted. If you are convicted, you are less likely to actually go to prison. If you go to Prison, you are less likely to face the most severe punishments our law allows.

You are less likely to find yourself out of a job in an economic recession. You are more likely to get a house or car loan, merely because of the color of your skin. You are more likely to be promoted, and if promoted, you will make more money on average than minorities and women who do the same work. Because you are white and male.

White skin privilege is not some fabrication. Neither is male privilege. You have advantages, and have had advantages your whole life based entirely on the color of your skin and your sex. This is not some made-up fantasy by the left. This is a simple fact of our existence.

And so when you claim a minority has an advantage, what you are really lamenting is the erosion of the privilege you have enjoyed your whole life. What you are lamenting is the loss of your undeserved advantage. Your unearned advantage.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:45 am 
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Heh heh. You said cockstain.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:46 am 
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Monte wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Monte wrote:
Question - do white people have advantages that non whites do not? Any at all?


Quite the opposite. Minorities have a great many advantages over me, if you look at race alone.


No, they don't.

Assuming you are a white male, you are significantly more likely to be hired. You are significantly less likely to be prosecuted for an equivalent crime. If you are prosecuted, you are less likely to be convicted. If you are convicted, you are less likely to actually go to prison. If you go to Prison, you are less likely to face the most severe punishments our law allows.

You are less likely to find yourself out of a job in an economic recession. You are more likely to get a house or car loan, merely because of the color of your skin. You are more likely to be promoted, and if promoted, you will make more money on average than minorities and women who do the same work. Because you are white and male.

White skin privilege is not some fabrication. Neither is male privilege. You have advantages, and have had advantages your whole life based entirely on the color of your skin and your sex. This is not some made-up fantasy by the left. This is a simple fact of our existence.

And so when you claim a minority has an advantage, what you are really lamenting is the erosion of the privilege you have enjoyed your whole life. What you are lamenting is the loss of your undeserved advantage. Your unearned advantage.


Talk about white guilt.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:50 am 
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It has nothing to do with guilt. It has everything to do with the sense of entitlement to advantage and privilege that white people enjoy. It's perfectly reasonable to expect that when that privilege is threatened that white people will react negatively.

It isn't "special rights" that white people react to negatively, it's equality. Equality means that you have to compete on the same level. That makes it less likely that you will succeed. Given an equal foot race, one that doesn't put white males at a significant lead over non-whites and women, it's very scary to imagine losing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:54 am 
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/facepalm

Its people like you what cause unrest.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:57 am 
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Monte wrote:
It has nothing to do with guilt. It has everything to do with the sense of entitlement to advantage and privilege that white people enjoy. It's perfectly reasonable to expect that when that privilege is threatened that white people will react negatively.

It isn't "special rights" that white people react to negatively, it's equality. Equality means that you have to compete on the same level. That makes it less likely that you will succeed. Given an equal foot race, one that doesn't put white males at a significant lead over non-whites and women, it's very scary to imagine losing.


Except that there is no sense of entitelement to advantage or privilege on the part of whites. There is no advantage or privilege.

You're trying to make things liek executions and crack seem like evidence of racism, when they are not. Crack cocaine does not do the same things to the body as powder; different execution rates do not demonstrate that racism is the reason unless you can show evidence that eliminates all other factors; especially rate of commission of crimes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:02 am 
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Müs wrote:
/facepalm

Its people like you what cause unrest.

Thing is, someone really evil would inspire hatred for an entire demographic. Monty only inspires individual disdain.

He's a pathetic loser, but not evil.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:17 am 
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Taskiss wrote:
Müs wrote:
/facepalm

Its people like you what cause unrest.

Thing is, someone really evil would inspire hatred for an entire demographic. Monty only inspires individual disdain.

He's a pathetic loser, but not evil.


Help help, I'm being repressed?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:19 am 
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Müs wrote:
Help help, I'm being repressed?

See, that's just pathetic. Now if you suggested taxing folks that have more than you do, THEN you'd be a loser.

Needs work, but you earned points for trying!

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Last edited by Taskiss on Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:19 am 
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Taskiss wrote:
Müs wrote:
Help help, I'm being repressed?

See, that's just pathetic. Now if you suggested taxing folks that have more than you do, THEN you'd be a loser.


Well I didn't vote for im.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:21 am 
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Please, Monte -- make me equal!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:32 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:

Except that there is no sense of entitelement to advantage or privilege on the part of whites. There is no advantage or privilege.


Except that there very much is. How do you explain the vast difference in execution rates, in conviction rates, and rates of imprisonment. It even presents itself when you look at white and black defendants of similar or equal socioeconomic status.

There is no doubt that racism is still entrenched in our institutions, in our hiring and firing practices, in our schools, and in our justice system.

White people have advantages as a result of the color of their skin. Men have advantages over women, and white men enjoy the most defacto advantage of any other type of person.


Edit -


Let me tell a personal story, from just yesterday, that you might relate to as a peace officer (actually, I dont know if you're a cop anymore or not, so if not, you were, so yeah).

Anyway.

I just got done serving on a jury for a criminal case. The accused was an African American male, approximately 40 years old. He was accused of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. The State had a terrible case. They had a single eyewitness, who (for various reasons) lacked a great deal of credibility. However, they did not call several other persons who had witnessed the crime. His testimony was not only contradicted by his police statements at the time of the incident, but evolved over the course of his time on the stand.

The state had no direct evidence linking the accused to the crime. They had one weapon of the two he was supposedly using. This weapon had his print on it, but the accused had recently been to the house and had lived there within a reasonable amount of time. Anyway, long story short, there was **** all for evidence.

Anyway, I was already well in the camp of Not Guilty (which would be the eventual verdict). However, the prosecution did something during closing statements that nearly had my jaw on the floor. The two prosecutors split the closing argument (one handled the initial argument, the other a rebuttal to the defense). The first woman, in the course of her speech, picked up the weapon and then put on her very bestest black man voice and quoted some hearsay evidence from earlier "An' den I came at 'im wit' a big ol' knife". She may as well have been tapdancing in black face. It was *seriously* offensive.

My guess is that she thought, given that there wasn't a single black person on the Jury, that her little impression might play on racial bias. Or perhaps that's just how this woman thinks black people talk. Who knows? It might *be* how the defendant talked, but the caricature was garish and, frankly, racist. She's a state prosecutor, and she should know better.

Just a personal anecdote, so take it however you like. We found the man not guilty given the states extremely weak case.

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Last edited by Monte on Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:52 am 
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Socio-economic.

Well that was simple.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:53 am 
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Then why does the disparity exist even when you compare people with similar socio-economic backgrounds?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:00 pm 
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Monte wrote:
We found the man not guilty given the states extremely weak case.


And justice was served.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:09 pm 
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It's neat that this little example he gives goes directly against what he is trying to present as fact. Funny how that happens so often to him. The justice system found a black guy not guilty, hmmm damn racists.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:07 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:

Except that there is no sense of entitelement to advantage or privilege on the part of whites. There is no advantage or privilege.


Except that there very much is. How do you explain the vast difference in execution rates, in conviction rates, and rates of imprisonment. It even presents itself when you look at white and black defendants of similar or equal socioeconomic status.

There is no doubt that racism is still entrenched in our institutions, in our hiring and firing practices, in our schools, and in our justice system.

White people have advantages as a result of the color of their skin. Men have advantages over women, and white men enjoy the most defacto advantage of any other type of person.


This is sheer nonsense. Blacks are not more likely to be executed, convicted, or imprisoned because of racism. They are more likely to have that happen because they are more likely to be criminals. They are more likely to be criminals because they are more likely to be poor. They are more likely to be poor because of racism that did exist until about 3 decades ago.

They do not suffer from significant racism now, nor do they have any significant disadvantages. Those blacks (and poor people of any other race) that set their mind to it can change their condition.


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Let me tell a personal story, from just yesterday, that you might relate to as a peace officer (actually, I dont know if you're a cop anymore or not, so if not, you were, so yeah).

Anyway.

I just got done serving on a jury for a criminal case. The accused was an African American male, approximately 40 years old. He was accused of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. The State had a terrible case. They had a single eyewitness, who (for various reasons) lacked a great deal of credibility. However, they did not call several other persons who had witnessed the crime. His testimony was not only contradicted by his police statements at the time of the incident, but evolved over the course of his time on the stand.

The state had no direct evidence linking the accused to the crime. They had one weapon of the two he was supposedly using. This weapon had his print on it, but the accused had recently been to the house and had lived there within a reasonable amount of time. Anyway, long story short, there was **** all for evidence.

Anyway, I was already well in the camp of Not Guilty (which would be the eventual verdict). However, the prosecution did something during closing statements that nearly had my jaw on the floor. The two prosecutors split the closing argument (one handled the initial argument, the other a rebuttal to the defense). The first woman, in the course of her speech, picked up the weapon and then put on her very bestest black man voice and quoted some hearsay evidence from earlier "An' den I came at 'im wit' a big ol' knife". She may as well have been tapdancing in black face. It was *seriously* offensive.

My guess is that she thought, given that there wasn't a single black person on the Jury, that her little impression might play on racial bias. Or perhaps that's just how this woman thinks black people talk. Who knows? It might *be* how the defendant talked, but the caricature was garish and, frankly, racist. She's a state prosecutor, and she should know better.

Just a personal anecdote, so take it however you like. We found the man not guilty given the states extremely weak case.


Did the defendant, or did he not, actually sound like that?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Monte wrote:
Question - do white people have advantages that non whites do not? Any at all?


Quite the opposite. Minorities have a great many advantages over me, if you look at race alone.


No, they don't.


Yes, they do.

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Assuming you are a white male, you are significantly more likely to be hired.


Actually, no. There's a 25% quota in my field for minorities, and whites make up approximately 77% of the area. Any minority engineers in this area get snapped up like candy. And they receive massive assistance if they want to start their own company. I get jack. So you're wrong.

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You are significantly less likely to be prosecuted for an equivalent crime. If you are prosecuted, you are less likely to be convicted. If you are convicted, you are less likely to actually go to prison. If you go to Prison, you are less likely to face the most severe punishments our law allows.


I don't think that's accurate. Show your data.

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You are less likely to find yourself out of a job in an economic recession.


Wrong. See above. My company just got much more heavily minority when we downsized.

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You are more likely to get a house or car loan, merely because of the color of your skin.


Show your work. Don't buy it.

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You are more likely to be promoted, and if promoted, you will make more money on average than minorities and women who do the same work. Because you are white and male.


Wrong. See above.

Quote:
White skin privilege is not some fabrication. Neither is male privilege. You have advantages, and have had advantages your whole life based entirely on the color of your skin and your sex. This is not some made-up fantasy by the left. This is a simple fact of our existence.


Wrong.

Quote:
And so when you claim a minority has an advantage, what you are really lamenting is the erosion of the privilege you have enjoyed your whole life. What you are lamenting is the loss of your undeserved advantage. Your unearned advantage.


No, I'm lamenting the fact that no white-male owned small engineering firm in this area can survive, while pretty much any minority owned firm is guaranteed enough work to be modestly successful. Among other things.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Then why does the disparity exist even when you compare people with similar socio-economic backgrounds?


Show that it does.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:48 am 
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I would like to point out some serious Klan members who co-sponsored the ultra-racist-against-black-american-ADAA of 1986:

Augustus F. Hawkins
Bill Clay
Louis Stokes
Ron Dellums
Parren Mitchell
Charles Rangle
Cardiss Collins
Harorld Ford
Julian c. Dixon
Mickey Leland
Mervyn M. Dymally
Major Owens
Edolphus Towns
Chalres Hayes

That is all but four black members of congress at the time of this legislation, not just voting for it, but co-sponsoring it... yeah... I'm sure the intent was racist.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:32 am 
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Arathain, all those things you mentioned are the result of government programs or mandates, the things everyone here wants to get rid of. You don't think you wouldn't have any advantage as a white person if all of those things were to go away?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:51 am 
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So the solution to government backed racial discrimination is more government backed racial discrimination? John Roberts still said it best "You want to stop racial discrimination, stop discriminating on race"

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:57 am 
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