The Glade 4.0

The person who wishes to do good but whose actions cause harm.

The person who wishes to do good but whose actions cause harm, understands this and attempts to ammend their actions towards good.

The person who wishes to do good but whose actions cause harm and does not investigate the results of their actions but continues to cause harm following the same premise and desire to do good.

The person who does not wish to do good and through inaction causes neither harm nor good.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

The first 3 are equally moral. However, #2 is more intelligent.

#4 is a reactor. He follows other people's morality. He does neither harm nor good. He is a pawn. Powerful people (or other powerful reactors) force him into action... make him work to pay taxes instead of giving him free food...etc.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

Are ethics deontological or teleological?

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

That question is answered by the responder.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Ethics are created from your personal interpretation of the outside universe that you perceive with your 5 senses. You can react and apply other people's form of ethics (stronger intellectual forces will always imprint ethics into you), or you can invent your own. Ethics should help your life the most... however strong intellectual forces will imprint ethics to help their lives more. Every person is a state machine and some run better than others.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

Lex:

So ethics are an ontological exercise instead of an epistemological endeavor?

_________________

I don't know what those words mean... I wish that people using fancy words can just define them. I don't study this stuff academically.

edit:

Ok you managed to get me to look stuff up.. yes Khross.

However... maybe the two words boil down to the same concept? I don't know a lot about this stuff.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

You need to have field-independent ethics as much as possible. Your ethics need to come from you, after taking in as much data as possible. It's fine if they overlap with other ethics. Your ethics will always be field-dependent on the ethics of the other people (who are fancier, better-trained neurological state machines) and on nature (the most trained state machine of them all who is ALWAYS your master). However, you should still TRY to exert free will and follow what you believe is the right ethical system.

Dogs do this to stay with their owner, even though to the owner it is obvious that the dog must stay.

Society is a growing state machine that increasingly exerts more powerful ethics onto all people.

State machines always interact. A powerful interaction leads one state machine to be dependent on the other. A smooth and powerful interaction is from a charismatic, trained state machine that knows it's right and is better able to exert its perception of reality. It has more interaction experience. What used to be unpredictable is increasingly predictable to the charismatic, trained state machine. It has stronger control over the universe. It knows it's right and does not have inner conflicts. Ethics boil down to power.

All state machines are tornadoes in a hurricane, which is trapped inside the state machine of the atmosphere...

Maybe I'm just crazy... this is a good distraction from work though...

State machines are the macroscopic observers/interactors to what used to be randomness... a.k.a. quantum mechanics... state machines find patterns in the chaos...

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

Also my theory is that large black holes of the universe are like the interface between your retina and the neurons there, and small black holes are like the interface between neurons and your skull. Just my theory though. I think the bubble-shaped universe as we know it is a brain.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

I am the most moral, therefore what I believe is correct and you should all follow suit.

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

That's a good start. However just realize that other people are entitled to feel the same way, except they are wrong.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

The question is impossible to answer without knowing what the actions in question are.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

All actions are figments of your imagination. All actions are macroscopic interpretations of chaos.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

Just knowing their morality is less then mine should dictate that if they aren't following my course of action, then they are wrong. Now put on your black Nikes and purple sweatsuits while I mix up this kool aid.

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

That's nice, but even if true, completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

The morality in question depends on the moral observer.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

Are you just having a non sequiter kind of day or something?

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

This one. I believe in the doctorine of repentance, when one does wrong they have the opportunity and responsibility to repent and move forward from that point.

The person who tries to do good and fails to follow through: either flat out (#1) or through ignorance (#3) isn't realizing that their actions have conquenses.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

I believe the most moral people there are follow two rules:

1. Be Excellent to Each Other
2. Party on Dudes!

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Neat. Tell me, how does it feel to be wrong?

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

What about a person that does good, knowing that it might cause some harm, but that the overall good will outweigh the harm done?

_________________


It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

That wasn't one of the options listed.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

It's nice to see such a firm grasp of the obvious.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Is the intent of person four to do harm?

_________________
"I've got twenty ways to tell you shut the f*ck up / nineteen of them are twenty-four bars long / the other one goes: SHUT THE F*CK UP" - Aesop Rock
"There is no God higher than truth." -- Gandhi
Formerly: Tulamian

Utilitarianism...Eugenics...John Holdren

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko