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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:45 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Hi-larious! Bush was the devil for wiretapping,


Bush was not the devil because of Wiretapping. That was one of the *many* things (and in the scale of his evils, one of the smaller ones sadly enough) he did that put him in that category. He invaded a country that posed no threat to us. In doing so, he murdered countless thousands of innocent people. He destroyed the country's infrastructure and locked us into a decade-long quagmire that has cost us thousands upon thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars. It has sent tens of thousands of Americans home as casualties, injured in a conflict that never had to be fought.

He approved the use of torture, and as a result people in our custody were raped and brutally murdered in interrogation. He approved the use of middle-ages era torture techniques. He convinced the country that Hussein posed an imminent threat and that he had a massive stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. He cynically manipulated our country's terror after the 9-11 attacks to make all of this happen.

So yes, when I look at what the Obama administration is doing, I am not going to fall into the trap of drawing a false equivalence between him and bush. I strongly oppose the use of warrantless wirteaps. I vehemently oppose the use of rendition to nations that are likely to torture a subject, and I vehemently oppose CIA black sites and other dodges to international and domestic law.

However, trying to say it's all the same is simply irrational. Obama has a very long way to go before he matches Bush's evil. A very long way to go indeed.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Ok man, Obama is still the commander in chief of civilian casualties though. I remember you making a thread on every account of it before. Obama may not have started it, but he owns it now and he hasn't done anything different. He could easily put and end to many things, because he's The Big Boss as far as military matters go.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:36 am 
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Wwen wrote:
Enh, why should American citizens get a trial when they leave the country to help support people fighting against American Occupation? If they want to help people who hate freedom, they can die at the end of a predator drone missile just as well as any Taliban.


Yeah, I guess the idea of US citizens getting a trial before being executed is just my foolish, antiquated sense of how our legal system works. What was I thinking? If the Government says they did it, good enough for me; they'd never lie.

Monte wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Hi-larious! Bush was the devil for wiretapping,


Bush was not the devil because of Wiretapping. That was one of the *many* things (and in the scale of his evils, one of the smaller ones sadly enough) he did that put him in that category. He ...

However, trying to say it's all the same is simply irrational. Obama has a very long way to go before he matches Bush's evil. A very long way to go indeed.


The US is still prosecuting two wars, Gitmo is still open, the same surveillance programs are being used, the CIA is performing the same rendition programs but waterboarding is illegal and US citizens are set for assassination without a trial. It's a renaissance of freedom!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:00 am 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Wwen wrote:
Enh, why should American citizens get a trial when they leave the country to help support people fighting against American Occupation? If they want to help people who hate freedom, they can die at the end of a predator drone missile just as well as any Taliban.


Yeah, I guess the idea of US citizens getting a trial before being executed is just my foolish, antiquated sense of how our legal system works. What was I thinking? If the Government says they did it, good enough for me; they'd never lie.

Well, they're enemy combatants, so they don't count. Ya gotta be flexible when you're fighting terror, Vin. Think like Gumby.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:24 am 
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With flexibility comes serenity. With serenity comes power. He who is capable of bending like the Gumby will pass through great forces without shattering to overcome his foe. - Sun Tsu*

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:38 am 
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I'll be honest, I find that Gumby a little creepy...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:13 am 
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viewtopic.php?p=77855#p77855

The linked post is pure comedy gold.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:17 am 
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Khross wrote:
http://gladerebooted.org/viewtopic.php?p=77855#p77855

The linked post is pure comedy gold.

I'd say more rose-colored than gold...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:40 am 
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Wwen wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Wwen wrote:
Enh, why should American citizens get a trial when they leave the country to help support people fighting against American Occupation? If they want to help people who hate freedom, they can die at the end of a predator drone missile just as well as any Taliban.


Yeah, I guess the idea of US citizens getting a trial before being executed is just my foolish, antiquated sense of how our legal system works. What was I thinking? If the Government says they did it, good enough for me; they'd never lie.

Well, they're enemy combatants, so they don't count. Ya gotta be flexible when you're fighting terror, Vin. Think like Gumby.



They aren't enemy combatants when they aren't in combat.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:32 am 
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What's funny is even KSM gets a trial.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:29 am 
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I find it a little amazing that I've said that if Americans happen to get killed in the process of killing someone else, or while engaging in combat with our forces.. oh well, tough for them, but we should not specifically target them.

Monty, on the other hand, thinks it is perfectly ok to target U.S. citizens, and even says we should try not to hurt anyone else in the process of taking them out, if they are overseas working with terrorists. This in addition to years of frothing anger any time a supposed "innocent" gets killed.

If there was any doubt that he puts other countries and their people on a pedastal, this should dispel it. Blowing up U.S. citizens who are terrorists - A-OK (well, as long as they're overseas!) blowing up, or doing much of anything else to foriegn terrorists - Not OK.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:12 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
They aren't enemy combatants when they aren't in combat.

Intelligence says they're in combat for realz.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:15 am 
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Wwen wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
They aren't enemy combatants when they aren't in combat.

Intelligence says they're in combat for realz.

Once a playah, always a playah?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:20 am 
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Listen, it all very top secret, but trust us, these guys have to die... FOR FREEDOM.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:22 am 
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Now, THAT'S "Change We Can Believe In"™

Oh, wait... hmm... define "change"

Quick somebody, post a dictionary definition we can argue about ... there's a lull in the conversation!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:26 am 
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change [cheynj]
–noun
27.a fresh set of clothing

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:25 pm 
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Wwen wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
They aren't enemy combatants when they aren't in combat.

Intelligence says they're in combat for realz.

Are they as sure about it as they were about WMD?

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