The Glade 4.0

Bruce Lee was definitely not unbeatable! Nobody is... But he was damn near unbeatable. I think Jackie Chan would give him the toughest challenge, though.

Seagal is...well, Seagal. Aikido is great in concept, but that Randori video...I just don't believe in it. I understand the martial artists he was fighting are trained to go along with the joint locks and throws to prevent injury...but I think their attacks were also not very...attackful. Instead of actually trying to punch him and hurt him it's more like "here's my hand, now I'm going to let you grab it so you can demonstrate your lock / throw technique" Maybe I'm wrong...but I don't have much confidence in Seagal if he were to use those techniques against trained fighters...people who actually fight, not just train technique in a dojo. If Seagal can use his Aikido to fend off attacks from 3 guys in an equal weight class from the UFC, then I'll be impressed.

In a cage or boxing ring Bruce Lee would have a tougher time....in an open area...he would beat nearly everyone....if not everyone. He wouldn't let anyone touch him.

I think the UFC cage tends to favor grappling / wrestling techniques.


I'm not a fan of Jet Li....the only movie I've seen of his that I really enjoyed was Kiss of the Dragon...all the other moves use too much wire work and sped-up camera tricks...I'm NOT a fan of that (the only movies where this type of thing is acceptable is crouching tiger hidden dragon, and the matrix, etc)


Bruce Lee is the best! Noone trained as hard as he did. Unfortunately he's dead. Jackie Chan is great...but he's getting old.

Tony Jaa is the most interesting martial artist right now, to me.



Ohh...and Donnie Yen.

Watch Ip Man and Ip Man 2!!! He's amazing.



I'd like to see a boxing match between Muhammad Ali and Bruce Lee in their primes.

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Ron Paul 2012

Actually, Jet Li's fight sequences generally get slowed down. He's one of the most proficient practitioners of Wushu on the planet.

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Throw me in the Tony Jaa camp. After seeing Ong Bok, that guy is scary good.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Who did he fight?

As for another story that may or may not be urban legend:

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/ent ... ___ch.html

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

That might be so, but I just don't like most of his movies.

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Ron Paul 2012

Well, like Seagal, he didn't really enter into any competitions. He also died at a young age so that's why there is so much speculation. That's why everyone asks "if Bruce was in the UFC, how would he do vs. ______?"


All we have to go with is his philosophy, accounts of his abilities from people who witnessed him and what we saw on film.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_lee#Fight_history





What I do believe is he was one of the strongest / fastest men in the world, at his weight. Without a doubt he would be able to beat anyone in his weight class, and maybe a few classes higher...and if there was no ring/cage, damn near anyone in any weight class.

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Ron Paul 2012

First of all, I forgot Stephen K. Hayes, who qualifies as being famous for something else thanks to Shogun.

Second, Lee would actually be stronger in a cage/ring/etc. since boxing was one of his original martial arts and where he got a lot of his competitive experience.

Third, please, please, please stop using UFC as your benchmark for martial arts proficiency.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

I'm not using it as a benchmark, just an example. I hate the UFC.


and B, this isn't Hellfire.



relax.

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Ron Paul 2012

??

I'm absolutely relaxed. Work is going well today and the weather is pleasant. Not sure what you're getting at, I just had 3 supplemental points to make.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

I never watch UFC but I'd take a lot of those guys over a Jackie Chan or Segal. Even against a professional heavyweight fighter, a small light martial artist is going to have a tough time staying conscious for long.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

I just find your list format response to be rude. People do that in Hellfire. It's annoying. Especially:



"please please please" ---what the hell kind of tone is that? This is irritated, condescending, accusational and argumentative language. Now I'm irritated and argumentative.

"stop using UFC as my benchmark"


...****

ing...


....annoying...


i'm not using it as a benchmark...I think the UFC is f*cking stupid and boring. But since we're comparing fighters, and UFC and Boxing are...well...very popular organized fighting competitions, I use them as examples. Is that OK?


Otherwise, we might as well just have a thread to see who will win in a fight between Batman, Superman, and Spiderman. Oh wait, we already do have threads like this.



**** lmao.

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Ron Paul 2012

Wow.... dude. I made a list is all. Sorry it bothered you that much.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Well then, Okily Dokily there, neighbor!


EDIT: Look, apology accepted, if it was in fact sincere. I just don't like the tone of your post...it's that kind of writing style that instigates 99% of the pointless arguments in Hellfire. You're talking down to me (and whoever else used the UFC as an example), and I find that annoying because it's not only condescending but also assumes that I was saying something that I didn't intend to say. Sorry for flipping out. It's just a bit annoying. And I also just got off the phone with a crazy person. Sorry...lol.

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Ron Paul 2012

Bruce Lee is the kind of warrior that mankind sees maybe once or twice every century or two. He's right up there with Musashi or Salavdore Fabris.

I believe the on-set story about the fight. The mans was...unspeakably good.

Khross is right about Jet Li. He's pretty much the shiznit when it comes to Wushu, and Wushu as a striking art is pretty practical. Watch someone work a training dummy and you'll begin to see why. It's not so much the fancy stuff. It's the in-tight up close hand work that makes Wushu effective.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Word. I like Kiss of the Dragon...his other movies, are annoying, because of all the wire work. I'm not against wire work and camera tricks and fancy impractical kung-fu moves, but his movies don't do it very well, to my taste. Fist of Legend and Fearless are great movies...but the fighting isn't that exciting. I swear in some parts of the fight scenes, the film is sped up ever so slightly. I don't doubt he's one of the fastest mofos around, but some parts just seem like the physics and gravity are sped up as well. It makes it boring to watch. I tried to watch this movie of his entitled "Tai Chi Master" and I couldn't sit through it. As far as his real skill is concerned, I'm not discounting him at all. Wushu is a fun word to say, but it really is just the Mandarin word for "chinese martial arts"...aka "kung fu". It isn't a "style" or a "strike-based art" but rather just a term for martial arts.

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Ron Paul 2012

OK. Here's my Beef with Jet Li.

First let me talk about Bruce Lee and why I think he sets the standard for kung-fu movies. Aside from his charisma, acting ability and display of emotion, his actual moves are all realistic. It's unfortunate that back then, he fights mostly idiots. He was miles above everyone in skill and they didn't have teams of highly skilled martial artists and stunt people and gymnasts like Jackie Chan does today. The fight with him and Chuck Norris in Way of the Dragon is probably the closest thing to a real fight with Bruce Lee on film we'll ever get to see. The rest, we have to imagine....but Bruce's moves were real. The way he moved, was real. The way his opponents reacted to his moves, were realistic....as realistic as they can get, considering nearly everyone he fought in his movies were either drunken idiots or half-assed students. Another thing that's great about Bruce Lee's movies, is the filming style. That scene in Fist of Fury where he goes to the Japanese dojo and beats everyone up....the filming style is almost like they were trying to do Matrix or 300-esque filming...except without camera tricks. Yeah, the moves are real, but he also used his movies to show his philosophy and be cinematic. You know, when he would hit someone, and everything stopped....kind of like in "300" He was way ahead of his time not only in thinking, but in the way his movies were filmed.


Now...enter Jet Li in "Fist of Legend" It's Fist of Fury, except with Jet Li.

Here's the final fight scene:
[youtube]0w1NLFBHBRw[/youtube]

As far as his personality goes, it's just boring. The choreography is also boring.

In terms of realism...there isn't much.

-1:08 - the very first kick Jet Li delivers, his opponent flies across the room as if it's Superman vs Zod. I already can't take it seriously. This film is supposed to be kind of a tribute, or a remake of Fist of Fury...instead, I find it insulting.

continue watching...in the next minute or so, with all that falling through and kicking through wood...I just have to laugh. What is this? The Matrix? I thought I was in for a realistic kung-fu movie. I'm disappointed.

-2:03 through 2:05 - The way they're both moving...the camera is sped up, I swear...ever so slightly sped up. Yawn. It's harder to tell when they're moving fast and flying through the air but when they're just kind of standing there it's really noticeable. Jet Li is fast, and skillful...but he's not so skillful that gravity and physics of the entire universe are fast too.

I could go on....


What I did like, is when he whips out his belt at the end. That was cool.


Kiss of the Dragon is awesome, because it has none of these problems.

Now, compare that, with Bruce Lee's original version:

[youtube]4_AJTgxBqpg[/youtube]
[youtube]HfJN542nsE8[/youtube]

It's just way better. I shouldn't have to explain why!!!







Donnie Yen is also a great martial artist...if you don't believe me, go see Ip Man. Both of the Ip Man films kick ***.

However....before Ip Man....was this:

[youtube]QQ3UIMP8qnw[/youtube]


What the hell? LOL. It's Donnie Yen as Bruce Lee. What the hell is this, a parody? I think I just threw up in my mouth a little...


There's just no replacement for Bruce Lee:

[youtube]JXXr8zipAQo[/youtube]



Leave the wire-fu and camera tricks to movies like The Matrix and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.

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Ron Paul 2012

*head explodes*




Maybe he can take Van Damme....but don't you realize that Asian people are unbeatable?


Jeez :p


lmao

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Ron Paul 2012

Gary Elms, Pu Chung, Uechi, Wong Jack Man, and apparently a lot of non-sanctioned, street/random fights that only have third party reports of Lee destroying faces.

I knew it! I keep telling LK that would should adopt an Asian kid so that when it grows up, it can teach me kung-fu.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

It has to know before it can teach sir.

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Raell Kromwell

All the Van Damme h8 got me wondering what his record was like.

Found this.

*shrug* his movies are hella corny.

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Ron Paul 2012

Hehe, well not much argument there from me, although Kickboxer and Lionheart were enjoyable enough.

I liked Time Cop when I was a kid, but last year I saw the last 15 minutes of that movie and couldn't stop laughin.

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Ron Paul 2012

Van Damme was an excellent competitor. No doubt about it.

Bruce Lee movies really give the Japanese a bad rap, lol.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show