The Glade 4.0

Aizle:

If the cameras, metal detectors, or other vehicles of surveillance and search are put in place by the government, then they've crossed the line.

_________________

I don't think lines should be drawn... it's good that criminals get caught. People who are scared of being watched need to get over it.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

Or shoot the people that attempt to spy on them.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I don't think people should be shot over something innocuous like observation. Should you shoot someone on the subway for looking at you?

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

Government != people.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

The government is made up of people who go on subways.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

So basically... someone can look at you on a subway and you won't shoot them... but when they go to work and look at you through a camera, you feel you need to walk to their office and blow it up? That seems just a little bit extreme to me...

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

Perhaps it seems so to you. However you perceive it; it remains another option.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

So basically you lost the argument and concede your views. Ok.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

It's as though you guys just like to argue in circles without actually looking into the matters. It's like a daytime hobby where you don't learn anything and just get to talk over and over about the same half-logic. Obviously wanting to kill people over surveillance is just stupid. It doesn't make any sense how someone can look at you in public and then look at you through a camera and suddenly deserve death. It's the same person looking at you. It's the same view.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

You're acting like this is new. There are cameras just about everywhere in modern society. If someone really wanted to, they could track you by the number of ATMs you walk by. "They" will soon know what you do every minute of every day. And while it used to be that there simply wasn't enough manpower to make that relevant for the populace at large, computers and software (Yes, facial recognition software is or will soon be as easy to use on a clear photograph as a fingerprint scanner on a finger) being as complex as they are can begin watching for patterns in where you go, and flag any deviations for investigation, all in the name of order and peace--but what it's really about is control.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Not at all. People have rights, governments have responsibilities. I know you don't understand the difference so I choose to make it as simple as I could for you.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

One person one time. Of course not.

Now that same person follows you off the subway, up the steps, all the way to work, and makes notes of everything you do. Some of those notes with your unique identifying information he hastily stuffs in his pocket so he can keep writing. You notice occasionally his notes sometimes fall out onto the ground and blow off down the street. Sometimes a random person picks up one. Sometimes some offical looking guy snatches a few pages and stuffs them into a big basket he's walking around with.

Then once you get to work, subway guy hands off a copy of his notes to another guy in your building. Who follows you while you are inside. Once your day gets done, your work shadow makes a copy of his notes and another copy of subway guys notes and hands the lot back to subway guy who follows you on the return trip. Still making notes.

Where is all the information going? Who all gets to see it? Will it strictly be used for it's intented purpouse?

Since I can't answer, or find a concrete binding answer that will only allow that information to be used for exactly what "they" say it's going to be used for, I can not, will not and will do everything in my power to counteract this type of program.

Cue Ben Franklin quote.

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

"It is a surprise to me that in my youth I did not pick up a public diease as I spent much time with ladies of ill repute." - Ben Franklin

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

ROFL...somehow I don't think that is the quote he had in mind.

What if it's not a program? What if its just a couple of guys doing it because they think its funny to mess with you?

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I tell you DE, Lex is so oblivious he's never going to notice us following him around taking notes. He's so damned distracted by the curves, always trying to hit on girls who just slam him down and walk away. Think he's working on the ask often enough and somebody will say yes, eventually, theory?

_________________
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Probably. Or maybe he's following Hannibal around, checking him out and taking notes.

You better quit worrying about government surveillance Hannibal. Someone else think's yer hawt....

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I am not opposed to the concept of being monitored by someone in public. You are in public. You surrender your right to privacy. If private property owners like businesses want to participate in this surveillance as well, then I think the market would solve such a problem.

However, I don't think any government entity (Federal, State or city) has any business doing this.

_________________
"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

Why should a corporation have more of a right to invade my privacy than a government? (and mind you, I don't think either entity has the right to invade my privacy).

Security cameras are one thing. Governments have them for reasonable purposes on government property. We have an interest in securing our government. And corporations have a reasonable interest in securing their property.

However, private institutions can still cross the line, in my estimation. Private entities collect mass amounts of data on individuals, largely without any oversight on what they do with that data. I see corporations and governments as similar, on paper entities driven largely by human nature (and all that entails).

And I don't agree that I entirely surrender my right to privacy when I step out my front door.

_________________


It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

You don't have to interact with a private corporation or be on their property. Why should you have the right to force them to do things on their own property?

_________________
"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

LOL. Not always... just usually... which is good enough for me.

_________________
"The map is not the territory."

NYC Stalking laws. http://www.safehorizon.org/page.php?page=stalking_nylaw

Harassment in the first degree is a class B misdemeanor.

Penal Code § 240.26. Harassment in the second degree. 1965. Amended 1994.

A person is guilty of harassment in the second degree when, with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person:

He or she strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects such other person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same; or
He or she follows a person in or about a public place or places; or
He or she engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which alarm or seriously annoy such other person and which serve no legitimate purpose.

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Crap - that's like 50% of all interactions I have.

_________________
The Dude abides.