The Glade 4.0

Missouri prop C passed by over 70%

It calls for the state to refuse to force folks to buy health insurance. Go MO!

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In time, this too shall pass.

Cool. So how many states have passed similar things so far?

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

This is kinda like a 'no athiest a foxhole' thing.
Everyone is against being forced to have health insurance...right up until the moment they're bleeding to death and the hospital won't treat them because they cannot pay.

Good analogy, except the part that the hospital still has to provide life saving care regardless of ability to pay.

Actually, EMTALA prevents hospitals from refusing to give emergency care if a patient cannot pay.

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The Dude abides.

Swing and a miss.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

not at all. I'm well aware they're not allowed to refuse care.

You just made my point for me. That care must be paid for somewhere. Better to have it 'within the system' Rather than bill customers who cannot pay and passing those costs (plus the overhead for it) on to everyone else better to have it within a system set up for this purpose.

Better off not using force to serve individuals with no ability to pay.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Foul tip. That's strike two.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Bull. TheRiov is completely correct. These are now unplanned costs that severly hamper a hospitals ability to budget and plan correctly and artificially inflate the overall costs of healthcare.

I'm seeing the effects of this right now. The biggest hospital in the area just laid off 700 employees because they had over 100 million in unpaid bills last year.

Right so stop forcing them to treat people.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Its easy to say that now. Harder when they're bleeding in front of you. Or should emergency care be put off until each individual can provide a bank statment and credit references proving they can pay?

Its not realistic Elmo and you know it.

Once again we see that libs and personal responsibility do not mix.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Hardly. I'm obviously liberal. I pay taxes. I pay my bills. I dont bounce checks and I contribute to society.

One COULD argue that by asking people to pay taxes we're asking for everyone to shoulder a piece of the burden--demanding greater personal responsiblity for society on the whole rather than dismissing the whole as 'not my responsiblity'

He boldly says, before he gets cancer and gets dropped from his insurance as a result...


People are so very courageous with other people's lives, aren't they?

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

It is realistic - you just don't like it.

If they are bleeding in front of me I will try to treat them as best as I can.

If they are bleeding in front of a doctor its the doctor's decision, if they bleed in front of a hospital its the hospitals decision.

Otherwise have a consent form for indentured servitude to try to recoup costs.

Have each hospital have a charity fund that is used to pay for these people and have drives for it.

There are many many ways to handle it that you haven't even bothered to consider.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

You do it seems, but you sure do seem all on fire to let others get away from it. Don't want to be turned away from the hospital in an emergency? Get a job, take care of your money, get health insurance. Do all that and we won't have to worry about the government getting involved so they can be more worried about you know, actual constitutional things.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Except that's not what fosters personal responsibility.

As an example, take the known result of what happens when a person is wrongfully attacked in proximity to a large group of people vs. that same attack in proximity to a few individuals. The individuals are far more likely to intervene, while the people surrounded by their comfy group think "surely, someone else will do something". You are suggesting that the group mentality is better for personal responsibility, and you're wrong.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

How does the Government forcing him pay for insurance stop this from happening?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Hey you pathetic pile of genetic slop,

I'll have done to me as I do to others every day of the week. You know absolutely **** about me you donkeyball sucking pea-brained bag of smashed ****.

**** off and die. You have no motivation to make the world a better place because you're a lazy, self-absorbed, ignorant git who can't think rationally because you don't even bother to try to understand what it means. Not that your feeble grasp of any concept or term could even begin the ascent to understand of anything of importance.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Says the coward who wants to force people to perform services by threat and wants to take money from people who earned it to give to people who haven't. Real brave fella you are Andy.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

How do you get that from my comment? It's the conservatives that are proposing that we don't **** pay for the issues that WILL and DO happen. I have yet to see one serious offering from the conservative parties that suggested that we deny emergency care from those who aren't covered. That is the ONLY way to make a non-taxpayer supported healthcare system work.

And as we all know that would never fly, the populace (rightly IMHO) would not stand for it. Beyond the moral repercussions, you'd have riots in the streets eventually that would be a far greater drain on the resources of our country and economy than any national healthcare system would be.

So basically you have two options, you can either cry and whine about how it's not fair or right or whatever, or you can man up and deal with the reality of the situation and do the best that you can. So far anything I've seen from the conservative side of the house has been crying and whining.

Well if we can get the right folks into office, maybe we will see a change. Doesn't mean I have to like the way things are right now, agree with them, or go along. You go ahead and be the lemming Azile. Personal responsibility...used to be a common thing. Now? Nah, let's make others pay for those that don't want to practice it.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Holy crap, I wonder if I could get away with using that as my signature...

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