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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:41 am 
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Talya wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:

I haven't listened to him extensively, but other than the aforementioned "Thomas the Tank Engine" narrative, that's everything I've heard. Claiming that means I haven't really listened to him is essentially just saying "but if you really listened you'd agree with me!"


The thing is, for the most part, you would agree with Carlin. Certainly not everything, but most of it. His biggest comedic criticisms were reserved for the politically correct movement, social-activist groups (such as feminists and environmentalists), the english language itself (which isn't to single out English, more because it's the only language he spoke), yuppie culture, and the media. He'd have fit in just fine on an episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit!, it was probably one of his favorite shows.

If Carlin had a downside, it was his utter nihilism. Of course, through extreme schaedenfreud, he found it all rather funny, but he could not see an upside to anything in human culture--ANY part of human culture. In his later years, he seemed to truly believe that homo sapiens were a species in decline, that we were pretty much devoid of redeeming qualities, and there is little hope left for us. It's a rather depressing view, if you can't sit back and laugh at human inadequacies, (years of reading authors like Douglas Adams makes that easier for some of us than others,) but some of us still hold out hope that we can evolve past our current issues.


All of the things in your second paragraph indicate why I would not find his commentary on the issues mentioned in the first paragraph either funny or insightful.

Douglas Adams is an interesting comparison. He is actually funny and clever and entertaining to read but he is no more insightful than Carlin. The concept of human inadequacies is one that strikes me as absurd. If you wish a religious viewpoint, the standard we are held to is so incredibly high that any comment on our inadequacies, evolving past them, or hope beyond the divine is absurd. If you look at it from a nonreligious perspective, inadequacies assume some standard we should be meeting, but which is totally undefined other than "higher than where we are" and where we are is not even defined, nor is any reason given why we should be meeting it, other than occasionally to satisfy the demands of hypothetical aliens who are arbitrarily defined as "better". Amusingly, these hypothetical aliens usually have all sorts of shortcomings of their own; unbelievable levels of self-righteousness being foremost.

Or to put it another way, it's simply a veiled lecture from a twit who thinks his opinion matters more because he's got a microphone. His commentary is not really any different from a teenager making fun of adults doing regarding issues he really doesn't grasp.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:44 am 
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Carlin was about more than his commentary. I remember his skits on Ed Sullivan and they were genuinely funny and entertaining.

I guess one develops their opinion of him at their first meeting.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:47 am 
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He definitely could be very funny and entertaining at times. Others he was just outright depressing.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:52 am 
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Dash wrote:
I didnt follow his career enough to say if it was a linear progression towards the end or if he was always like that, but it's clear to me when he just resorts to that vapid "everything sucks, we're all doomed" stuff. People suck, there is no god and it's all bullshit, i'm a nihilist, i love it when people die in natural disasters because we deserve it... blah blah blah.

I hate that hubris he shows here, how most people just do x and y but he's trying to wake people up.


It was definitely more the case in his later years. I believe his best routine by far was done in the 80's while Reagan was president. He got progressively more negative after that. No less funny, in my opinion, but his "Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics" special was the last time I could take him seriously while still laughing at him. After that, I kinda had to laugh at him as the grumpy old funny man who occasinoally made a good point.

The only exception to what you said above was in your last sentence. There was no hubris. He didn't hold himself above the criticisms he made of everyone else. There was never a point to his rants other than the humor he found in it all. He didn't pretend to have a better solution, or think there was something we were doing wrong that we could somehow correct. He wasn't trying to wake us up. He was just pointing out how funny he thought everything was, not despite human stupidity, but because of it. The only thing he ever wanted out of any of us was to get a laugh. Since, in his view, nothing could (or should) be done to stop humanity's circling-plummet down Darwin's drain, the best one could hope for is a good view to enjoy the show. And the show is certainly amusing, even if the swirling puddle we're floating in is (hopefully) far less deep and dangerous than Carlin believed.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:02 am 
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Taskiss wrote:
Carlin was about more than his commentary. I remember his skits on Ed Sullivan and they were genuinely funny and entertaining.



He was an occasional guest host on the Tonight Show during the Johnny Carson era. His 70's shock-routines were almost devoid of social commentary at all, instead being a product of the "being stoned is cool" era. (Before one thinks we've gotten past that, "That 70's Show" had that type of humor in its most brilliant moments.)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:06 am 
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DE, I get that you don't like his style, but to call him a talentless hack just shows that you don't understand comedy or it's mechanisms. Much less the consistent critical acclaim that he was awarded over his career.

Watching the tribute show after he died was very interesting. It was really amazing to see all the comedians he had touched or inspired or in some cases helped directly to get started. What was also very interesting was to see how diverse of a group they were as well from a style perspective.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:23 am 
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Aizle wrote:
DE, I get that you don't like his style, but to call him a talentless hack just shows that you don't understand comedy or it's mechanisms.

Would have just been easier to draw a big circle as a reply.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:11 am 
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Aizle wrote:
DE, I get that you don't like his style, but to call him a talentless hack just shows that you don't understand comedy or it's mechanisms. Much less the consistent critical acclaim that he was awarded over his career.


No it doesn't. I understand comedy just fine. I just think Carlin is a talentless hack. As for critical acclaim, that's appealing to authority on a matter that is entirely one of taste. Entertainment critics are largely ignorant blowhards.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:25 am 
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Talya wrote:
The only exception to what you said above was in your last sentence. There was no hubris. He didn't hold himself above the criticisms he made of everyone else. There was never a point to his rants other than the humor he found in it all. He didn't pretend to have a better solution, or think there was something we were doing wrong that we could somehow correct. He wasn't trying to wake us up. He was just pointing out how funny he thought everything was, not despite human stupidity, but because of it. The only thing he ever wanted out of any of us was to get a laugh. Since, in his view, nothing could (or should) be done to stop humanity's circling-plummet down Darwin's drain, the best one could hope for is a good view to enjoy the show. And the show is certainly amusing, even if the swirling puddle we're floating in is (hopefully) far less deep and dangerous than Carlin believed.


He would frame it as though he lumped himself in with everyone else, I agree, and I dont claim to know the man's mind so perhaps he did believe it. Look at the original clip though, he's taking the tone of a teacher lecturing the ignorant and he did that a lot. "It's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." Gag.

That's not even taking into account that he's talking about "vanishing pensions" when the big topic in the US (and Greece and all over) is the insolvency of overly generous public sector pensions. This is the same sort of problem that kills musicians and film makers, they let the ideology influence their art and it predictably tanks.

Again though to be clear, the man was unquestionably gifted. Some of his **** was hack but a lot of it was fantastic.

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