The Glade 4.0

Doctors don't get multimillion dollar parachutes either, and they don't make money by providing substandard care. They make money by being the best in their field; that's where money, attention, prestige, professional respect and new patients come from.

It's not hard to hold them accountable either; there are all kinds of malpractice suits and licensing boards. As it is, we probably hold them too accountable already. Private buisness does not necessarily need to be accountable in the way that government is.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Happens all the time. Ever heard of an HMO?



So, in your opinion, doctors are never bad at their job, never screw up, never provide poor or substandard care? Really?





Yeah. Because having your leg cut off when you were in for appendicitis is something we probably shouldn't really make sure to punish financially. Private business *definitely* needs to be held accountable and regulated, like government. And the bigger the business, the more it should be transparent and restrained.

Granted, small private practices are not really what I am talking about.

I look at it like how the car companies decide on a recall or not. That speech, in the beginning of Fight Club? It's not bullshit. Large companies look at the potential costs of a large suit, and do the math. If they think they will make more money by allowing an unsafe product on to the market, they will do it. That's not the sort of calculation I think should ever be made, but I definitely think that it's not the kind of calculation that should be made regarding health care.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

You will now show evidence that HMOs provide multimillion dollar golden parachutes to the average doctor.



So in your opinion it's ok to make a total strawman, and in doing so imply that lack of perfection is a reason for anything at all?

No, in my opinion doctors have strong incentives to try their best. They are not served by doing a poor job.




Sorry, but I didn't say that there should be no regulation. You cannot hold up a gross error like a flase amputation and argue that means any arbitrary amount of control or accountability is needed because of that. It is not an argument that it needs to be controlled like government; in fact it indicates that you have no argument other than that you want it to be held accountable for accountability's sake.

It does not take a great deal of accountability to deal harshly with people who are total idiots and amputate the wrong limb.



Why? Becuase when you go in the little doctor's office, he and his workers are people you actually know and trust because you see them, but bigger medical establishments that you don't have a personal warm and fuzzy with are somehow automatically less trustworthy?



I don't see any reason why not. Health care is a limited commodity; like anything else. We could spend every single dollar on healthcare and always be in need of more. As long as there are restrictions on the scope of that authority to make those decisions, it's not a problem, and the biggest restriction is that people will stop paying for healthcare if it doesn't work.

As for fight club, I never saw it, and I don't give a **** what some Hollywood nitwit thought.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Do you not see the humor factor in using a managed health care system system as the perpetrators of substandard care? Seriously...

He gets it from his king who once compared the idea of government health care vs private health care to the postal service vs UPS/FedEx.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

HMOs was the terrible result of leaving health care improvements to the private market. It was basically born when Clinton's HCR efforts failed. Capitation patients wind up getting shat on by health care providers because - you guessed it - they just don't make a lot of money on those people.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_mai ... ganization
Because Bill Clinton was President in 1973 ...

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"I'm not a democrat" in 3...2...1...

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In time, this too shall pass.

Wow, I was totally wrong about the origin of HMOs.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Well, that's a start. HMOs have been around a very long time. The biggest irony is that the recent HCRA basically turns all service and provider payment systems into HMOs.

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Someone frame this. I think we have a first.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Erm, no. HMOs use a capitation system to pay doctors. We give you X amount of patients, for whom we pay you Z amount of money per person per month/year/quarter/whatever, and you agree to treat them according to Y plan. That's distinctly different than a PPO plan, or a straight up indemnity plan.

I have personally witnessed, in the Dental health care profession, just how willing care providers are to give capitation patients very poor care compared to non capitation patients. Doctors and office managers look down their nose at such patients.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Erm, yes. Quite simply, the "ObamaCare" Plan just turned the U.S. Healthcare system into the largest HMO on the planet.For the most part, but that's exactly what the "ObamaCare" plan does over the long term and by design. Have you read the bill?Have you read the bill? Do you even understand what it does? Because, honestly, that's exactly how it's going to work out. With the homogenization of "insurance" available, the incredible barriers put in place for group plans and non-government insurance, the expanded risk pools, and the very real pressures to create a single-payer system through the back door, that's exactly what the HCRA did, Montegue. Please, read the document.You really don't know what you're talking about here ...

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He apparently either missed or ignored this portion of that link as well.

Fun Fact:
Most HMO's have moved away from capitation because providers weren't accepting them or their patients.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Guess which recently dead drunken murderer was the main push behind HMOs?

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

I'll take Liberal Lions for 500, Alex.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

First this year?

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Ted Kennedy was convicted of murder?

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Nope, he just murdered.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I assume you have incontrovertible evidence of the crime, then? Or are you just pretty sure he did it? Maybe because, you know, everyone thinks he did it, so he must have.

Now, where are those copies of the Ron Paul Report, where he used a whole bunch of racist and bigoted language, and then disavowed ever writing it, even though he signed his name to it...

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

I expect nothing less from you Monte. You're like my rock.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Are you really denying Chapaquitic?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

In precisely how many dental offices have you observed this, and what were the exact circumstances?

You should stop othering dentists and their office assistants. They're all Americans.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."