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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:57 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:

How is she any more of an attention whore than any other public figure?


Really?

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So really, the big objection to her is the nature of the figures of speech she uses?


No. My big objection to Sarah Palin is, as President Bartlett put it - she's a 22 caliber mind in a 50 caliber world. Or something to that effect. Sarah Palin is good at two things.

First, she's good at winking conservatives into believing that she will a) **** them and b) is just like them.

Second, she's great at cashing in on conservative stupidity. And yes, I mean stupidity. If you are a conservative, and you think that Sarah Palin is a serious candidate that's qualified to be president, then you are, in fact, stupid.

Sarah Palin never met an office she couldn't walk away from. As Mayor of Wasilla, she signed **** paychecks. Also, if you are stupid enough to believe her and her handlers, she had massive staring contests with Valadimir Putin. Or maybe that came with the half term she spent as governor...I forget. Her failures are so hard to keep track of.

She does, however, make 100k a pop on the speaking tour circuit. She says "grizzly moms" and bored 55 and over white conservatives essentially orgasm cash at her. She goes on the teevee, can't tell her *** from a whole in the ground, blames the media, and once again gets a deluge of conservative spunk-covered money filling her coffers.

She's a joke. But more than that, the people that worship her like the second coming of Mary Magdalene (cuz Glenn Beck is Jesus) fall for it every time. She can cash in, though. I give her that.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:11 am 
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Using 'Attention Whore' as a criticism of a politician (or any other figure who succeeds based on their popularity) is like complaining that you don't like water because it's too wet.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:49 am 
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Monte wrote:
She goes on the teevee, can't tell her *** from a whole in the ground...


You know it's a special kind of fail when someone on the internet criticizes an accomplished individual for their supposed lack of intellectual capacity, and in the process, proves their own.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:51 am 
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Monte wrote:
No. My big objection to Sarah Palin is, as President Bartlett put it - she's a 22 caliber mind in a 50 caliber world. Or something to that effect. Sarah Palin is good at two things. ...

She goes on the teevee, can't tell her *** from a whole in the ground, blames the media, and once again gets a deluge of conservative spunk-covered money filling her coffers.
Whole what in the ground?

;)

You can't make this stuff up and be as funny as when he's trying to be serious

In a .50 caliber world, some folks still are playing with cap guns

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:52 am 
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Monte wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:

How is she any more of an attention whore than any other public figure?


Really?


Yes, really. Explain in detail what it is that makes her an "attention whore", since this is a totally subjective term to describe people who create drama on internet message boards when there aren't enough threads that interest them.

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No. My big objection to Sarah Palin is, as President Bartlett put it - she's a 22 caliber mind in a 50 caliber world. Or something to that effect. Sarah Palin is good at two things.

First, she's good at winking conservatives into believing that she will a) **** them and b) is just like them.


So in other words, it's really about her being female and good looking, and not liberal.

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Second, she's great at cashing in on conservative stupidity. And yes, I mean stupidity. If you are a conservative, and you think that Sarah Palin is a serious candidate that's qualified to be president, then you are, in fact, stupid.

Sarah Palin never met an office she couldn't walk away from. As Mayor of Wasilla, she signed **** paychecks. Also, if you are stupid enough to believe her and her handlers, she had massive staring contests with Valadimir Putin. Or maybe that came with the half term she spent as governor...I forget. Her failures are so hard to keep track of.

She does, however, make 100k a pop on the speaking tour circuit. She says "grizzly moms" and bored 55 and over white conservatives essentially orgasm cash at her. She goes on the teevee, can't tell her *** from a whole in the ground, blames the media, and once again gets a deluge of conservative spunk-covered money filling her coffers.

She's a joke. But more than that, the people that worship her like the second coming of Mary Magdalene (cuz Glenn Beck is Jesus) fall for it every time. She can cash in, though. I give her that.


So, we have a repeat of Tina Fey's little comment about Russia, we have a cricticism of the fact that she was a local mayor, because serious candidates for some reason aren't supposed to ahve ever been small town mayors, and we have a complaint that she's been successful financially by speaking in public.

Thanks for vindicating my entire original point. Sarah Palin is no more inherently dislikeable than any other political figure; we just have a large crowd that either dislikes her views or dislikes the fact that a female holds them and tries to make her out as a big meanie and stupid to boot. I'm sorry she's hurting your little feelings by moving in on the lib-feminist mystique, but thanks for admitting it so bluntly.

Nice of you to come right out and admit your incredible sexism too. Remember, kids, if people actually like a female politician who's decent-looking and not an approved liberal, it's because she's somehow tricking them into wanting to **** her! Females are only allowed to appeal to the masses if they're sufficiently ugly and liberal!

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Last edited by Diamondeye on Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:56 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Sorry, but "handwaving" does not mean "pointing out that what you said doensn't make your reasons one bit clearer."

Let's explore this a bit.

I don't like Palin. I was asked for my reasons why. I gave them. They are why I, specifically (to use Screeling's terminology) don't like her.

The conversation then shifted to where I expected: deconstruction of those reasons. Like it or not, those are reasons. What you're attempting to do, presumably just for the sake of argument, is to try to somehow disprove away the specific comments, positions, and actions that built my opinion of her. I honestly see no reason to provide you those, particularly all of them. There are just too many; it's a waste of my time and a waste of yours (as you're not going to change my opinion of her).

So yes, when I see examples of her hypocrisy ("It's time to bury the divisive politics of the past.", despite her unyielding adherence to divisive politics to shore up her popularity), her attention whoring (Sarah Palin's Alaska, a new reality show coming soon to TLC!), her drama-queening, her victim-carding (quitting half-way into her only gubernatorial term), etc. etc. etc., it makes me dislike her. Other people view those things I despise about her as good traits. It's like trying to to paint a negative picture of Obama as a socialist to a socialist. Cutting words hold no sway if the recipient of them holds different values. *shrug*


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:05 am 
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FarSky wrote:
So yes, when I see examples of her drama-queening

Not to be lumped in with people who are trying to change your mind or discredit your opinions, but this one surprised me...

You work around (or with people who work closely with) celebrity singers a fair amount these days, don't you? And this looked like drama-queening to you? Maybe country stars are all more down to earth guys than I give them credit for, but neither of those riders even raised an eyebrow to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:07 am 
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FarSky wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Sorry, but "handwaving" does not mean "pointing out that what you said doensn't make your reasons one bit clearer."

Let's explore this a bit.

I don't like Palin. I was asked for my reasons why. I gave them. They are why I, specifically (to use Screeling's terminology) don't like her.


Except that you didn't. You just explained that you think she has certain negative qualities. Duh. If you didn't think that, you wouldn't dislike her? Saying she's a "fight picker" means nothing.. ok, so what? What's an example of a fight she supposedly picked?

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The conversation then shifted to where I expected: deconstruction of those reasons. Like it or not, those are reasons. What you're attempting to do, presumably just for the sake of argument, is to try to somehow disprove away the specific comments, positions, and actions that built my opinion of her. I honestly see no reason to provide you those, particularly all of them. There are just too many; it's a waste of my time and a waste of yours (as you're not going to change my opinion of her).


Except that no one deconstructed them at all, I pointed out that all you did was reiterate that you didn't like her by using more words and a long list of negative terms. You didn't give any specific comments at all, so no, I wasn't trying to "disprove away" anything; you gave me nothing to disprove.

As for not providing all of them, don't be absurd. "examples" is not "all of them".

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So yes, when I see examples of her hypocrisy ("It's time to bury the divisive politics of the past.", despite her unyielding adherence to divisive politics to shore up her popularity), her attention whoring (Sarah Palin's Alaska, a new reality show coming soon to TLC!), her drama-queening, her victim-carding (quitting half-way into her only gubernatorial term), etc. etc. etc., it makes me dislike her. Other people view those things I despise about her as good traits. It's like trying to to paint a negative picture of Obama as a socialist to a socialist. Cutting words hold no sway if the recipient of them holds different values. *shrug*


Hey, look, specific examples! While I think your characterizations of all of those are absurd and reflective of one standard for Palin and everyone else, that's what I was asking for in the first place! Was that so **** difficult? You commented above about not wanting to waste my time or yours, so why didn't you just post these in the first place?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:19 am 
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@Diamondeye
I was asked for reasons. I gave them. Reasons are not examples. Examples are different, and take time to find, link, etc. And given that I don't give one **** **** what your (or anyone's) opinion of my opinion of Sarah Palin is, it seems an unwise use of my time to throw example after example out to people whose opinion isn't going to change either. I prefer using my time in more productive fashions, like watching paint dry or grass grow.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:23 am 
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I think she's OK. I don't want her as president. There are certainly worse politicians and political whatevers than her currently running around.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:51 am 
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FarSky wrote:
@Diamondeye
I was asked for reasons. I gave them. Reasons are not examples.


"Specific" reasons. Don't forget the adjective, what with it implying the questioner (Screeling I think?) that they were looking for, you know, specifics.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:56 am 
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DFK! wrote:
FarSky wrote:
@Diamondeye
I was asked for reasons. I gave them. Reasons are not examples.


"Specific" reasons. Don't forget the adjective, what with it implying the questioner (Screeling I think?) that they were looking for, you know, specifics.

The quote is "What do you, specifically, have against her?" Emphasis Screeling's. Given said emphasis and the placement of the adverb in the sentence, "specifically" modifies "you," not "what."

In order for it to say what you say it says, it would need to be structured as thus: "What, specifically, do you have against her?"


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:06 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
DFK! wrote:
FarSky wrote:
@Diamondeye
I was asked for reasons. I gave them. Reasons are not examples.


"Specific" reasons. Don't forget the adjective, what with it implying the questioner (Screeling I think?) that they were looking for, you know, specifics.

The quote is "What do you, specifically, have against her?" Emphasis Screeling's. Given said emphasis and the placement of the adverb in the sentence, "specifically" modifies "you," not "what."

In order for it to say what you say it says, it would need to be structured as thus: "What, specifically, do you have against her?"


Hmm, perhaps. I switched from reading to skimming when we went into Palin is t3h suxz0rs land. I guess we'd need Screeling to clarify.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:20 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
dude, she's definately an attention-whore.


How is she any more of an attention whore than any other public figure?


Well, she does every interview she can, she writes books, she's everywhere. She's one tour through Europe shy of an Obama.

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Quote:
and she goes on and on about how well pit bull moms or bear moms fight.


So really, the big objection to her is the nature of the figures of speech she uses?


No, my big objection to her is her inability to establish any significant confidence in me that she's competent to actually function in a real-world capacity. She sounds like an idiot when she start talking about specifics, she spends most of her speeches regurgitating talking points, and she resigned as governor.

I see no evidence that she'd be effectual as anything other than a political figurehead.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:26 pm 
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The intent of my question was to hear Farskee's reasons, and I assumed examples would come along with them. Admittedly, I didn't ask for examples though.

All I've ever seen out of him when she's brought up are snide little comments about her character without ever listing an actual example for why he feels that way. I could have sworn he was the one attributing book bannings to her, a story that was debunked. Even if I'm wrong in how I remembered that (and apologies if I am), I was curious to see if there were concrete reasons for not liking her that extended beyond general dislike for her public persona. My experience says that most people that like and dislike her do so because of her persona rather than her record and where she stands on issues (as opposed to candidate endorsements).

For the record, I'm neutral with respect to her and lean toward not wanting to see her on an RNC ticket precisely for the reason that she hasn't built her popularity primarily on her stance on the issues. It's the main reason I feel she has no business speaking at Tea Part events. Also, I'm not thrilled about the fact that she resigned as governor but I can understand that all the lawsuits against her were financially breaking her family. I'm not sure how I'd choose in a similar situation. For those that are willing to look down their nose at her for this (I'm looking at you, Monty), I'm curious how you would justify going bankrupt to your family to hold onto an office you eventually have to, and likely would, vacate in a year or two anyway.

Edit: Thanks, Farskee. Even though I don't agree you on your reasons, I can at least see why you don't like her.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:43 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
I don't like Palin. I was asked for my reasons why. I gave them. They are why I, specifically (to use Screeling's terminology) don't like her.
Yeah, see, I'm not a big Palin fan either; I think she's a tool. That said, I just dislike it when people attempt to do the following two things: 1) ascribe Tina Fey's satire to Palin as real; 2) insult the woman's intelligence when she's demonstrated she's actually pretty smart and capable of learning things quickly (i.e. the training she given in prep for McCain's campaign).

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Admittedly I don't hang on her every word but I have never heard Palin espouse an original idea. She instead appears to pander to populism, relying on polls in much the same manner that Clinton did.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Not sure if it is dirty campaigning, but dear god I love Green's caimpaign, it's a full on train wreck, and some of the most entertaining politics around.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08 ... ty-charge/

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A grand jury on Friday indicted U.S. Senate candidate Alvin Greene on a felony charge of showing pornography to a South Carolina college student, according to court records.

Greene was indicted for disseminating, procuring or promoting obscenity, court records show. The Democratic nominee was also indicted on a misdemeanor charge of communicating obscene materials to a person without consent.

Greene told FoxNews.com that "my lawyer's dealing with it" before hanging up. When reached again by phone and asked who his lawyer is, Greene said, "It doesn't matter."

Greene was arrested in November after authorities say he approached a student in a University of South Carolina computer lab, showed her obscene photos online, then talked about going to her dorm room.

Greene has not entered a plea and has refused to talk about the accusations in interviews.

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Greene, 32, won a shocking victory in the June 8 Democratic primary. The unemployed military veteran handily defeated Vic Rawl, a former lawmaker and judge who had been considered an easy win by the party establishment.

Up to that point, Greene had done no visible campaigning and had no website, fundraising or staff.

In the months since, Greene has given a series of awkward interviews to reporters clamoring for more information on the unemployed man who lives in Manning with his ailing father. In one interview, he suggested that the state's economy could be improved by making and selling action figures depicting him in his uniform.

Last month, Greene gave his first public speech, a 6 1/2-minute recitation of his previous comments and commitment to jobs and education. He now has a website and says he has raised less than $1,000.

He faces Republican U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint in the fall. The popular incumbent has raised more than $3 million.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:14 pm 
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Heh. Its been interesting watching the Dem party scramble to fix this mess.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:14 pm 
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Khross wrote:
2) insult the woman's intelligence when she's demonstrated she's actually pretty smart and capable of learning things quickly (i.e. the training she given in prep for McCain's campaign).

She reminds me too much of one of my X's for me to ever like her, but this is true - she did better in a short time than I could have.

I'm sure several of you are snickering, but that's OK. I'd think that few could have accomplished what she did as quickly.

As for her quitting as Governor, she did what I believed Clinton should have done - she exited office when the point was reached that outside influences prevented her from giving it the attention it deserved. I'd have been too much of a hard head myself, but I can recognize her dilemma and respect her decision.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:20 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
dude, she's definately an attention-whore.


How is she any more of an attention whore than any other public figure?


Well, she does every interview she can, she writes books, she's everywhere. She's one tour through Europe shy of an Obama.


That's how she earns her living.

I couldn't see myself voting for her, other than a desire to see peoples' heads explode if she won.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:25 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
Heh. Its been interesting watching the Dem party scramble to fix this mess.


I don't know if they can fix that mess, short of having him committed to an asylum and sneaking in another candidate. And even then the Rep can still run on the "Look what the dem's think is qualified"

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Well, the Dem's at this point have given up. They were looking at running a candidate as an "independent" after the investigation into Greene's fees didn't pan out in their interest. They talked to him about stepping aside. They have even tried to "discredit" him by calling him a Republican plant, which hasn't really worked out for them either.

I think now the have finally resolved to losing that race, since the D in DeMint comes before Greene in the alphabet... :)

Actually, no one they could have run against DeMint had much of a chance to take that seat. DeMint is far too popular in the state.

Lindsey though... there was no question he was going to lose his seat in the primary.


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I know its a lock, but I am hoping for some more chaos in this case before November, as I don't think the Philadelphia Eagles are going to provide my entertainment this fall.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:59 pm 
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And Maxine waters had to secure money for her husbands bank because George Bush is a racist vs minority owned banks!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08 ... use-rules/

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Embattled Rep. Maxine Waters on Friday blamed the Bush administration for her ethics problems -- saying she had to intervene with the Treasury Department on behalf of minority-owned banks seeking federal bailout funds -- including one tied to her husband -- because the Treasury Department wouldn't schedule its own appointments.

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