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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:18 am 
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An opinion piece from from the WSJ about the proposal for a new income tax. Bold by me for the parts I thought particularly interesting.

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The battle between taxpayers and government unions will define the fiscal future of the 50 states, and the newest battlefield is Washington state. That's where a few rich taxpayers led by Bill Gates Sr. and the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) are bankrolling a November ballot measure to create the state's first income tax.

And not just a toe-in-the-water tax. They're diving into the deep end with a proposal that would immediately impose a 5% tax rate on income above $200,000, or $400,000 for married couples. The rate would climb to 9% on single filers making $500,000, or $1 million for couples.

No state has introduced an income tax since Connecticut nearly 20 years ago, and that state's experience has not been happy. The top rate in Hartford began at 4.5% but has since climbed to 6.5%. Washington wants to leap over that and achieve California and New Jersey heights in one giant step. Washington would move overnight from one of the nine states with no income tax to having the eighth highest rate in the country.

Mr. Gates, a wealthy lawyer whose son is among the richest men on the planet, is pitching the proposal as a chance for 97% of the voters to pay the state's bills by socking it to the richest 3%. What he doesn't say is that Washington's lack of an income tax is among its main comparative advantages in luring those top 3%, along with their businesses and jobs, into the state.

In addition to Washington, the states without an income tax are Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas and Wyoming. Combined they had an average 18.2% growth rate in jobs over the past decade, more than twice the 8.4% job growth of the nine states with the highest income tax rates, according to a new report based on Commerce Department data by the American Legislative Exchange Council.

The liberal Seattle Times accurately describes the state's zero income tax as "a selling point. An asset. And more than that: It's a bonus for living here." Even liberal Democratic Governor Christine Gregoire begins her sales pitch to prospective business investors with the reminder: "No income tax."

That's an especially powerful attraction on the West Coast, where California and Oregon impose a top tax rate of 10.55% and 11%, respectively. Proponents say Oregon raised its income tax last year, so Washington should get in the game. But Oregon at least has no state sales tax. Washington has close to the highest sales tax burden in the nation, varying by area but reaching as high as 10% in Seattle depending on what you buy.

To win votes, the ballot measure resorts to all sorts of trickery. Unions describe the initiative as tax "relief" because it includes a mandatory cut in the hated property tax (only by 4%) and it eliminates various unpopular fees and taxes on business. Still, the overall impact of the measure is a $1.5 billion tax increase in 2012 and $2.5 billion a year by 2016. Small business taxes are cut, but they are also hit with a whopper of a new tax: a personal income tax paid out of their profits. Over half of the tax will be paid by Washington businesses.

The biggest deception is the description of the new income tax as "an excise tax on income." This language is cleverly designed to dodge the state's constitutional prohibition against an income tax and the requirement that any tax be "uniform upon the same property." Obviously a tax that hits only 3% of taxpayers and applies graduated rates is anything but uniform. Proponents claim that because the tax is withheld from worker paychecks, the money was never the property of the person who earned it. That's like saying if someone steals your paycheck, it's not your property.

We hope Washington voters aren't duped by the claim that only the rich will pay this tax. After two years, the law allows the legislature by simple majority to extend the tax to nearly everyone. The revenue from the tax will finance new spending, which will soar and lead to even higher deficits in the next downturn, which will create political pressure to expand the tax to the middle class.

Income taxes are always sold as a one-time way to reduce deficits, but they always become engines of greater spending, and eventually deficits. Just ask Californians. If Mr. Gates wants the rich to finance more Washington spending to create more SEIU dues-paying jobs, he and his son can do so by donating their own fortunes.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:43 am 
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/cry


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:56 am 
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You really think its gonna pass?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:12 am 
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Wow and then we can truly had a left coast. Way to ruin what works.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:30 pm 
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I suggest moving to Tennessee. The weather is good and the cost of living is low. It won "best state to live in" by CNN/Money for 2006 and by Money Magazine in 2007.

I'm considering Kentucky, Tennessee and Arkansas for states to 'retire' to, in that order

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:07 pm 
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Kentucky and Arkansas are crappy places to live, but Tennessee is nice. They are pretty serious about conserving the land, and the greater Nashville area is very pretty. Hell, the whole state is pretty easy on the eyes.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:38 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Kentucky and Arkansas are crappy places to live, but Tennessee is nice. They are pretty serious about conserving the land, and the greater Nashville area is very pretty. Hell, the whole state is pretty easy on the eyes.


Have you lived in either Kentucky or Arkansas for an extended period of time?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:00 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Monte wrote:
Kentucky and Arkansas are crappy places to live, but Tennessee is nice. They are pretty serious about conserving the land, and the greater Nashville area is very pretty. Hell, the whole state is pretty easy on the eyes.


Have you lived in either Kentucky or Arkansas for an extended period of time?



I'm sure he read something bad about them on DailyKOS...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Midgen wrote:


I'm sure he read something bad about them on DailyKOS...



Don't be such a **** tool box.

Anyway - I spent a good deal of time in and around Kentucky, and my Fiance lived there for several years. My father lives in Nashville (the greater Nashville area), and also lived in Knoxville. I've toured the entire united states twice now. Arkansas is, from what I hear, pretty crappy. But no, I never lived there. I do know folks who *do*, and they aren't terribly impressed.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Don't be such a **** tool box.


You go first...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:16 pm 
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I can vouch for my adopted city/state being awesome. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:17 pm 
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You're in Nashville, right? We should look you guys up next time we visit my dad. He's in Gallatin.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:19 pm 
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Yah, Nashville. Lemme know.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:29 am 
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Rynar wrote:
Monte wrote:
Kentucky and Arkansas are crappy places to live, but Tennessee is nice. They are pretty serious about conserving the land, and the greater Nashville area is very pretty. Hell, the whole state is pretty easy on the eyes.


Have you lived in either Kentucky or Arkansas for an extended period of time?

A Truthful Monte wrote:
No

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:37 am 
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Yup

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Last edited by Vindicarre on Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:37 am 
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Wrong thread?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:50 am 
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Arkansas and Kentucky are very nice. Not sure about the schools in Arkansas though.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:16 pm 
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When it comes to education, Arkansas and Kentucky rate very poorly. When it comes to poverty rate, they both rank in the worst 10. When it comes to median household income, they rank at 47th and 48th in the nation. Per capita income has them at 40th and and 48th, an overall high school drop out rate of 29% for Kentucky and 28% for Arkansas (that's ranked at 29th and 30th, which is about the best statistic I've found for the two states).

Arkansas took 4th place in teen pregnancies, and Kentucky took 9th. (2006 is the most recent data I could find on that).

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:47 pm 
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Monte wrote:
When it comes to education, Arkansas and Kentucky rate very poorly. When it comes to poverty rate, they both rank in the worst 10. When it comes to median household income, they rank at 47th and 48th in the nation. Per capita income has them at 40th and and 48th, an overall high school drop out rate of 29% for Kentucky and 28% for Arkansas (that's ranked at 29th and 30th, which is about the best statistic I've found for the two states).

Arkansas took 4th place in teen pregnancies, and Kentucky took 9th. (2006 is the most recent data I could find on that).


So you hate poor people, uneducated people, and babies?

;)

Anyway, like I said - they are very nice. I am not a teenager, I am already educated, and I'm not poor. Hell, maybe the poor, stupid masses would be so impressed by my credentials they'd treat me like a king.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Monte wrote:
an overall high school drop out rate of 29% for Kentucky and 28% for Arkansas (that's ranked at 29th and 30th, which is about the best statistic I've found for the two states).


Bullshit.

Leaving your erroneous statements out of it, throwing out statistics without a basis for context is useless. I'd be willing to bet that the vaunted TN is neck and neck with the other two in random statistics. They're probably all in the bottom 3rd. No one would ever want to move to a place where your income is comparatively high while the cost of living is low, for example - nah, that never happens.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:30 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:

Anyway, like I said - they are very nice. I am not a teenager, I am already educated, and I'm not poor. Hell, maybe the poor, stupid masses would be so impressed by my credentials they'd treat me like a king.


Anyway. I posted those statistics to illustrate the wider point about those states. Their infrastructure is crappy. They don't invest in their state, and that causes problems for the state. To give an example -

Once upon a time Mercedes wanted to build a plant in Louisiana. The suits flew in from overseas, and got off their plane. On the way to the site, they looked at the surroundings - broken down trailers, roads in poor repair, dilapidated schools - and they decided to not do business with Louisiana. They found better infrastructure at the time in Alabama (!), and built their plant there.

Investing in your human capitol pays huge dividends in terms of your state's success. Kentucky and Arkansas need to work on that investing.

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