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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:17 pm 
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The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama’s vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama’s initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world’s attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world’s population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world’s leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama’s appeal that “Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges.”


You can armchair quarterback this all you want, Khross, but these are the reasons why the President was so honored. Why can't you bring yourself to say "congratulations"?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:19 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Michael when people are called upon to analyze their own behavior it has been my experience that they cannot do so logically. Only by de-personalizing the example (but compairing it so a similar situation) can they see how their behavior is actually flawed.


Okay, so lemme come up with a comparison that is a lot more applicable.

If Curt Shilling was named an MVP in the NFL...I don't have to know anything about the NFL, or know who should have won it to be able to understand why Curt Shilling had no business being named MVP in a sport he doesn't play.

Likewise, knowing the history and what the Nobel Prize stands for, it doesn't take knowing the other candidates, or who should have won, to be able to understand why Obama has accomplished nothing yet that would provide merit for the award. The seven-year-old analogy utterly fails.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Taly,

Lighten up.

To which post is this a response, exactly?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:23 pm 
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Comparing little kids and tantrums about their food consumption to winning a Nobel Prize for not doing anything is just not getting your point across very well I'm afraid.

However, if you want to have fun with analogies of kids and food:

There are 200+ kids sitting around a table eating dinner. Only one of them will get dessert. They have all worked hard all day at their chores in the hopes of being the one kid that gets a piece of pie. At the last minute, some kid walks into dinner late, sits down at the table, and is chosen to get the pie over the others even though he didn't do any chores that day.

Gee, this is fun.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:26 pm 
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And to continue LK, then another obnoxious child complains because third party observers point out the inequity of the situation.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:27 pm 
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Yep, but you're not allowed to point out that the kid didn't deserve the pie, unless you can name who did deserve it!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:28 pm 
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I think its rediculous to claim that Obama has had no effect on world peace efforts. if you want to argue that his contributions dont rise to the level of Doctors without Borders, or Albert Schweitzer or Martin Luthor King Jr, thats a seperate argument. (one I actually agree with)

I'm not debating if he deserves the prize or not. I'm calling people to task for ranting about how unworthy he is without providing a suitable alternative. Especially since these same people aruging that he doesnt deserve it (or Carter, or Gore either) are the same people who object to these men's politics. This sounds like more of an effort to rant about someone you dont like getting something you dont dont want them to have because of who the person is, than any real moral outrage that someone who WAS deserving getting robbed of something that was 'rightfully' theirs.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:29 pm 
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Monte wrote:
You can armchair quarterback this all you want, Khross, but these are the reasons why the President was so honored. Why can't you bring yourself to say "congratulations"?

Feel free to answer the exact same question I posed to Aizel... on what accomplishments was he nominated? Nomination deadline was 2 weeks after he was elected, so what at that point had he done to actually warrant a nomination for the award?

Or, should we start nominating everyone on the planet on the chance that they might do something, or say the correct things with no yet realized result between the closing of the nominations and the decision of who should get the reward?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:30 pm 
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devil's advocate here Ladas, but a president's contributions start long before they take office. Their presense on the stage during the election and in the months leading up to the swearing in can have a profound effect on the (inter)national dialogue.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
Monte wrote:
You can armchair quarterback this all you want, Khross, but these are the reasons why the President was so honored. Why can't you bring yourself to say "congratulations"?

Feel free to answer the exact same question I posed to Aizel... on what accomplishments was he nominated? Nomination deadline was 2 weeks after he was elected, so what at that point had he done to actually warrant a nomination for the award?

Or, should we start nominating everyone on the planet on the chance that they might do something, or say the correct things with no yet realized result between the closing of the nominations and the decision of who should get the reward?



Would be awesome to get an answer for this.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:32 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
devil's advocate here Ladas, but a president's contributions start long before they take office. Their presense on the stage during the election and in the months leading up to the swearing in can have a profound effect on the (inter)national dialogue.



Promising things that you don't follow up on should warrant a Noble prize?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:33 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
I'm not debating if he deserves the prize or not.


Um, dude, thats exactly what we are debating.
:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:35 pm 
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A suitable alternative was provided for a page ago Riov.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:35 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
I'm calling people to task for ranting about how unworthy he is without providing a suitable alternative.

The idiocy of this comment is almost unparalleled. There is no requirement to be able to propose a substitute to recognize that someone has not earned an award. However, I will be more than happy to hold you to this standard in teh future.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:37 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
TheRiov wrote:
I'm calling people to task for ranting about how unworthy he is without providing a suitable alternative.

The idiocy of this comment is almost unparalleled. There is no requirement to be able to propose a substitute to recognize that someone has not earned an award. However, I will be more than happy to hold you to this standard in teh future.


Filing this one away in the mental rolodex... :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:39 pm 
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I have a comment that would completely put you in your place on this argument Riov; but I can garauntee I would get warned or banned for bringing it up... just keep in mind; you have NO standing in this argument, and the path you tread is a very slippery slope.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:39 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
devil's advocate here Ladas, but a president's contributions start long before they take office. Their presense on the stage during the election and in the months leading up to the swearing in can have a profound effect on the (inter)national dialogue.

So just to make sure I understand your position here Riov, you are advancing the idea that he was nominated for his stated positions during the election process, and the impact those statements might have had on diplomatic discourse?


Last edited by Ladas on Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:39 pm 
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Feel free to Ladas. And Elmarnieh, the 'suitable alternative' was ONLY suggested in response to me calling people out on it.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:40 pm 
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Feel free to what?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:40 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Feel free to Ladas. And Elmarnieh, the 'suitable alternative' was ONLY suggested in response to me calling people out on it.



Yes well its now been proposed so you don't have an argument now (in addition to you pulling such a requirement of critique out of your ***).

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:40 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
TheRiov wrote:
devil's advocate here Ladas, but a president's contributions start long before they take office. Their presense on the stage during the election and in the months leading up to the swearing in can have a profound effect on the (inter)national dialogue.

So just to make sure I understand your position here Riov, you are advancing the idea that he was nominated for the his stated positions during the election process, and the impact those statements might have had on diplomatic discourse?



(you do understand that "Devil's Advocate" means that I'm arguing for a position I dont myself support.... right?)


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:42 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
Feel free to what?

Hold me to that standard.

And please, dont hold back Darkseige. "Put me in my place" --this aught to be amusing.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:42 pm 
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Yes, but generally playing the devils advocate means you are at least presenting a plausible idea or rebuttal.

Is that is that not an accurate understanding of the idea you were advancing?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:44 pm 
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That is the argument the Nobel committee is putting forward, yes. Not one that I would argue.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:46 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
devil's advocate here Ladas, but a president's contributions start long before they take office. Their presense on the stage during the election and in the months leading up to the swearing in can have a profound effect on the (inter)national dialogue.


So, the kid who got the pie was talking about the chores he was gonna do tomorrow.

And to disagree that he deserved it was obviously because we didn't like his comic book choices.

You're right, LK, this IS fun!


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