The Glade 4.0

Thats a side effect when you refuse to engage in intelligent discourse and instead resort to abuse laden sub-psychotic rants.

And you wonder why we don't come out to play?

Reap what you sow.

Sure, we all do it some times, but it's pretty much the MO for a few posters these days (Monte, Captain Victim Card)

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An internet forum isn't a place for serious discussion. It's a place where one can share opinions. Conflict starts as soon as opinions clash...and that's why moderation is useless, 'cause it should be considered as the price of admission.

Just like what TheRiov is so famous for - if you put it out there (no matter what "it" is), some people are gunna say it's wrinkly, short and ugly. If that offends someone, they shouldn't stick it out for public consumption.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Right, because me rants somehow pre-date months and months of just appalling behavior by you and Montegue? You have a rather distorted sense of time. Or, do I just need to start linking your shit-stirring posts in Chronological order before I decided someone should call you out for being a shitheel?
Irony, thy name is Captain Victim Card.

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That's fine. I'm content to agree to disagree rather than engage in finger-pointing. I just didn't want the reference to me in your post complaining about "the ones who currently run to Moderation all the time," to give anyone the wrong impression.

The main forums appear to be more or less ok. However the complete cesspit that Hellfire, to a lesser extent Heckfire have become along with their fairly regular tendency to spill over into other forums should make the effectiveness and quality of the moderation on the forums obvious.

I can only believe that those who think everything is "fine" now or with less (is that possible) moderation, just like to fling poo around.

On point, I think we all have differing expectations of moderation and definitions of shit-slinging. My recent little escapade in the Missouri thread was intentional and calculated. It seems not to have reached the bulk of its intended target (on notable exception is Aizle, who at least grok's what I was attempting now). That said, I think certain rules need to be administered to Hellfire/Heckfire.

Disagreeing is one thing. Arguing is one thing. Getting a little agitated is probably a given. However, repeatedly calling this place an echo chamber or invoking racism, bigotry, fundamentalism as pejoratives has to stop. As does refusing to source bold claims in the face of overwhelming evidence. And, quite honestly, we should police overt examples of plagiarism.

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It seems pretty obvious to me that the majority opinion is that people don't want to *BE* moderated... at least among certain personality types....

I'll just say that I dread to think what this place would be like without moderation.

For my part, I think moderation is necessary to preserve what little there is left of the place (outside of the asninery of Hellfire).

The challenge is identifying who should do it, and what rules they should enforce.

Khross, your expectations of this boards vastly exceed reality. It's not some grand hall where people can work out the secrets of the universe, it's a time-killer. This board is not just my lowest priority, it has zero priority. If I'm bored, I may log on. If I'm not bored, it doesn't matter if I'm in the middle of the most epic debate this board has ever seen, I'm off doing something else.

Likewise, I feel perfectly fine posting something I believe without sourcing it, or even sourcing it by saying "I read somewhere...." If it doesn't sway you, fine. If I'm that interested in the conversation, I may go find the source. Maybe not.

Perhaps they just color in the lines, or are mature enough to accept when they've crossed the line and accept their spanking. No one thinks the police are over-bearing until they get a night-stick in the sack for a minor offense.

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Awww. That's not fair. I don't consider myself a poo-slinger and I think things are fine now.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I don't think anyone would classify me as someone who has ever flung poo around on these boards, and I don't have a problem with less moderation. We're all adults, and should be mature enough to not get so upset over "people being wrong on the internet". If someone's posting bothers you, don't read it. Why does it need to be moderated out? We have an ignore feature.

If two people are going at it, it's both of their choice to do so. The rest of us can stay clear or join as we choose. If you get your panties in a wad and jump into a bout of poo flinging, then lets have some personal responsibility about the results. You knew what the likely outcome was when you started.... If you don't want that outcome, don't start?

In many ways, I think for the more ::cough:: volatile members, the idea of moderation makes them toe the line more than they might otherwise, as Mook pointed out earlier.

Rules help some people, other people view then as an "I can do anything that's not specifically enumerated here, whether or not it's the "proper" thing to do".

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

This, at least these days. When I first started coming here, the Glade was an outlet for me to get into long, serious discussions of topics that most people I know in real life don't want to engage to any great extent. The fact that I was single and my work hours weren't particularly demanding at the time made that possible and appealing. These days, I feel much less of a need for that kind of outlet, and my free time is extremely limited, so I'm closer to Arathain's approach. When something piques my interest, I read what others' thoughts are on the subject, throw in my 2cp, and after a little back and forth, basically move on. I usually come away with a somewhat broader perspective or increased knowledge, and that's great, but really, it's not about deep engagement with the issues for me anymore; it's about semi-informed small talk with people who have reliably different political instincts than I do.

It's difficult to seriously debate with people who simply reject reality out of hand. Someone's going to quote that line, as if it's ironic. And my guess is the person who quotes that line may not be so sure the President was born in America, or they might think that the global scientific consensus on HIGCC is just a massive hoax or a conspiracy or a cult. They may at one time have believed (and may still believe) that Michelle Obama is some sort of militant black racist, or that James O'Keefe's videos were an honest accounting of his experiences with ACORN.

And that, I think is the main problem. There are things a person can reasonably debate. You can debate the relative merits of different economic outlooks. You can debate the relative merits of various government policies. You can debate morality, or faith, or what have you. And that's all fine and good.

However, there are some things you cannot debate with a person who does not accept reality. You can't have a serious discussion on policy responses to climate change when people, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, believe in their heart of hearts that it's a hoax. You can't have a rational discussion about the President's position on foreign policy with people that think it's reasonable to assert that Obama is just like Stalin or Hitler.

On this board, there is an Enemy. The Enemy is the Left. Anything of the Left is wrong and must be attacked. Anything not sufficiently Right enough is wrong. And not only wrong, but must be eliminated. It doesn't matter if a thing is objectively true. It only matters that the Left be attacked.

It's not enough, on this board, to support reforms to public schools. You have to actually oppose the Department of Education as a fascist, slave-making plot or you're not a "serious" poster. It's not enough to talk about ways to make Social Security or Medicare work. If you don't castigate those programs as sinister armed robbery at gun point, then you're the crazy one.

This board is not a place for reasoned, rational debate. It's a place where no right wing conspiracy theory is too far fetched to get air time. Secret Whitey Tape? It *definitely* exists. Obama's birth certificate? It's not a "real" birth certificate. Violence in Arizona is actually going down over the last few years? BAH! Liberal conspiracy. Damn liberal media. Everyone knows the Mexicans are killing ranchers left and right and that every single one of them is a drug mule.

This disconnected relationship with reality has been growing since the run up to the invasion of Iraq. Everyone *knew* that everything the government said about Iraq was true, and if you dared to say otherwise, you were a traitor and a terrorist sympathizer.

I am convinced at this point that the "very serious" minds on this board would accept just about any conspiracy theory spewed by Fox News and put up on a chalkboard by Glenn Beck. He's the hero of the Tea Party movement. The Tea Party movement is the hero of the conservative movement. All hail Beckistan.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

And we get an example of precisely the kind of post I've been decrying. There's no evidence for any of the claims made in Montegue's most recent example of an attack on every contributing member of this community, yet ... it will go unnoticed. That's precisely the kind of behavior that needs moderating.

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I don't think irony is enough to describe it.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

That's the problem Khross. We all have our posting styles that @#$@# us off.

Monty's worldview.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

EVERYONE does this to some degree. Some of us are more aware of it than others.

This thread is so full of win...

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**** no it doesn't need moderating.

Just ignore it and move on.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Do not disagree, but after reading that article and seeing the definition of that behavior...it's like the guy who came up with it did nothing but read Monty posts on this board.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

That really should be your sig from now on, Lenas.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

I just don't know why every post has to be sniping at someone. I know you don't like the guy (or me for that matter) but its just cheep shot after cheep shot.