The Glade 4.0

Now you got it Coren! It is fun!

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

No, that is not the argument put forth by the committee. They were quite clear in their comments they were awarding Obama for what he has done while in office, and the potential of things yet to come.

Now, the people (person) that nominated him might present that concept, but that would be equally stupid at this point if you compare what he promised to what he has actually done at this point.

edit = adding the comment to which I was responding, since some posts were made while I was writing and it shifted pages

I'm more interested in seeing if Barry pays his taxes on his "bonus". Should be taxed at about 90+% right?

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

keep going Coren, but you're both totally missing the point. I'm not trying to make a statement about who SHOULD get the proverbial pie or the fairness of how the pie was distributed. I'm making a statement about the whiners who feel the need to complain about it without citing any evidence as to who SHOULD get the pie. No one suggested that the other 200 people 'did their chores' (ie, did anything worthy of the prize) only that the 201st kid DIDNT do something worth getting it.

Well first off, I want to re-iterate that I'm not sure that I would have put him up for the prize as it is early. I don't believe that he has yet accomplished enough to match the levels of some of the greatest prize winners, but I believe he is well on the way to matching many. It should be noted that in his acceptance speech, he also doesn't believe he's worthy of the award yet.

However, for the first time in my memory (including Clinton) I like both the tone and direction that the US is attempting to engage the rest of the world diplomatically. I believe that Obama has the correct priorities as far as policy goals, and is the first President that I actually believe really means what he says when he talks about trying to reduce nuclear weapons in the world. He's also one of the first presidents in a long time where I think he's truly being driven by his concience and convictions and using those as the primary guide for his actions.

Which means you're missing my point...which is that you don't have to know anything about the other 200 to be able to logically conclude that something is fishy about the boy doing no chores getting the pie.

So the person who is saying that "if we want to do this thing, we need to do this!" is the same person who cannot make sure he has the money to buy a house before he gets into negotiations on said house?

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Stop complaining Riov until you can provide us with a list of who should be complaining about the award.

You reporting Monty

Anyone who can cite people more worthy of the prize is welcome to complain.

If you have 200 kids who did their chores and one who did not, and everyone gets upset that the kid who did not was the one who got the pie, isn't it kind of obvious that everyone is upset that one of the kids who did their chores should have gotten the pie?
I thought that whole aspect kind of spoke for itself and didn't need to be pointed out?

I'll point it out for you though: One of the 200 kids who did his chores should have gotten the pie.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

So, in your opinion, the President has done nothing to deserve this accolade? Because the people that make that call clearly disagree with you.

In a very short span of time, Obama has changed this country's reputation from the train wreck it was under Bush to a force for unification and disarmament in the world. That didn't just happen. It was a result of his excellent work, his dedication, and his vision. In reality, this reward is something we can all be proud of for electing him to office. The way we did business under the previous administration was horrible for world peace and stability. He has taken that and turned it around, and that's why he's been chosen.

To argue that he just showed up and did nothing is to simply ignore everything he *has* done. Russia is at the table on disarmament talks, the squabbles with Russia's neighbors and NATO are getting a lot better, Iran is willing to negotiate, and cooperation between nations on issues of peace and global security have very quickly gone from utterly soured to off and running. That didn't just happen.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

That doesn't really address my rebuttal to your first post, but I understand the position you gave in this thread, and while I don't agree with the direction Obama is going with some of his policies (mostly domestic), I agree with your conclusion of his convictions.

Again. the point has gone totally over your head. NO ONE DESCRIBED WHO SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE PRIZE UNTIL I SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Everyone is so caught up in someone getting something they didn't deserve they (primarily because they dont like the guy to begin with) they didn't even CARE who should have gotten it.

So basically you're whining about people whining.

Bravo man, bravo.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Just going to post this because it seems to sum up the international WTF that is going on...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 867711.ece
October 9, 2009

Comment: absurd decision on Obama makes a mockery of the Nobel peace prize
Michael Binyon

The award of this year’s Nobel peace prize to President Obama will be met with widespread incredulity, consternation in many capitals and probably deep embarrassment by the President himself.

Rarely has an award had such an obvious political and partisan intent. It was clearly seen by the Norwegian Nobel committee as a way of expressing European gratitude for an end to the Bush Administration, approval for the election of America’s first black president and hope that Washington will honour its promise to re-engage with the world.

Instead, the prize risks looking preposterous in its claims, patronising in its intentions and demeaning in its attempt to build up a man who has barely begun his period in office, let alone achieved any tangible outcome for peace.

The pretext for the prize was Mr Obama’s decision to “strengthen international diplomacy and co-operation between peoples”. Many people will point out that, while the President has indeed promised to “reset” relations with Russia and offer a fresh start to relations with the Muslim world, there is little so far to show for his fine words.

East-West relations are little better than they were six months ago, and any change is probably due largely to the global economic downturn; and America’s vaunted determination to re-engage with the Muslim world has failed to make any concrete progress towards ending the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

There is a further irony in offering a peace prize to a president whose principal preoccupation at the moment is when and how to expand the war in Afghanistan.

The spectacle of Mr Obama mounting the podium in Oslo to accept a prize that once went to Nelson Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi and Mother Theresa would be all the more absurd if it follows a White House decision to send up to 40,000 more US troops to Afghanistan. However just such a war may be deemed in Western eyes, Muslims would not be the only group to complain that peace is hardly compatible with an escalation in hostilities.

The Nobel committee has made controversial awards before. Some have appeared to reward hope rather than achievement: the 1976 prize for the two peace campaigners in Northern Ireland, Betty Williams and Mairead Corrigan, was clearly intended to send a signal to the two battling communities in Ulster. But the political influence of the two winners turned out, sadly, to be negligible.

In the Middle East, the award to Menachem Begin of Israel and Anwar Sadat of Egypt in 1978 also looks, in retrospect, as naive as the later award to Yassir Arafat, Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin — although it could be argued that both the Camp David and Oslo accords, while not bringing peace, were at least attempts to break the deadlock.

Mr Obama’s prize is more likely, however, to be compared with the most contentious prize of all: the 1973 prize to Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho for their negotiations to end the Vietnam war. Dr Kissinger was branded a warmonger for his support for the bombing campaign in Cambodia; and the Vietnamese negotiator was subsequently seen as a liar whose government never intended to honour a peace deal but was waiting for the moment to attack South Vietnam.

Mr Obama becomes the third sitting US President to receive the prize. The committee said today that he had “captured the world’s attention”. It is certainly true that his energy and aspirations have dazzled many of his supporters. Sadly, it seems they have so bedazzled the Norwegians that they can no longer separate hopes from achievement. The achievements of all previous winners have been diminished.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

My guess is it was a response to your last moderator message in red.

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"The map is not the territory."

ROTFL. A nonsequitur, a personal attack, and displaying a total lack of knowledge about my personal life in one sentence. How efficient of you!

Or, maybe it was just such a major "WTF?!" moment that just totally outweighed everything else.

Again, if Curt Shilling was put into the NFL Hall of Fame...would you SERIOUSLY require people to be able to name alternatives before being allowed to wonder why the heck Curt was allowed in?

This thread should be locked..

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"The map is not the territory."

Arathain:

Talya is a Moderator. She was responding to someone else's report of that post.

TheRiov:

Really? I'm being childish and petty because I feel Obama has not earned the accolades in this thread or the Nobel Peace Prize? That's your argument? Beyond being a gross strawman and an ad hominem attack, it's faulty logic at best. Disagreeing with Obama's receipt of the award is not mutually exclusive from my position that the Nobel Peace Prize should require demonstrable merit and documented progress toward its stated goals and standards.

Montegue:

There is a difference between "can not" and "will not". I will not congratulate President Obama on accepting an empty political gesture based on the promise of efforts that have no occurred, are not likely to occur, and the empty rhetoric of "hope and change". The Nobel Peace Prize should not be a political statement or affirmation of political ideology. President Obama should have refused the award on grounds he has not had enough opportunity to justify its receipt.

That said, Ladas and I have asked you, among other posters, to document what you think legitimates his nomination and receipt of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Aizle:

You keep giving us platitudes. Show us the tangibles that go along with your "great many things for this nation." Generalizations won't cut it. There are way too many threads, incidents, and opinions on this forum that document legitimate criticisms of his domestic and international policy for unsubstantiated assertions such as yours to hold water.

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A president of the US is by definition a major player in the world peace stage.

This is simply untrue.

Obama has done a *great* deal in the last 9 months to improve and foster positive international relations in the direction of peace. He has returned the US to it's place as an example for the rule of law, banning torture and the other heinous practicies we employed under the previous administration. He has begun a new process of nuclear disarmament, has improved relations with Russia and her neighbors, has brought Iran to the negotiating table, and has begun the process of ending the war in Iraq, and possibly Afghanistan.

Just because you don't think he's done anything in office worthy of this award does not in fact make it so. He has done a great deal, the committee outlined what he has done, and why they gave him the award. We ought to be proud of him, not attacking him over it. The comments about this are pretty classless. Hell, someone even said the only reason he got it was because he was the first black president.

No, couldn't be that he's done great work in a short period of time. That doesn't fit the frame.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

I realize this takes a bit of logic to work out, but the root of the complaints are actually directed at the people that make the decision and the decision process. How this committee came to the conclusion they did in awarding this prize is beyond reason, especially now that some of the other nominees have been exposed. The committee and selection is a farse, and I would say such if they awarded me the prize over any of the other people listed.


He did all this in his first two weeks?