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 Post subject: Accomplishments
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:30 pm 
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So it really hasn't been a good year for Obama, and the honeymoon is clearly over. Thoughts on what he's accomplished so far (ON HIS AGENDA)? Partisanship aside, how do you think he's done thus far in meeting his own goals?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:26 pm 
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I honestly feel Obama has been making a good attempt at meeting his goals. However, I feel he's lost control of what those goals are, and has failed to keep them clearly defined. Peoples perception of what he "promised" is inflating as time goes on, which is undermining his credibility. I don't feel any administration has been faced with this level of accountability being thrown at them so early. Everything he does, says, or writes makes it's way out to the public.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:37 pm 
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I think to most people who voted for him his planks werea udacious hope for change - whatever that meant in their mind (which is exactly why those words were used).

When they found out he had stated things opposing what they thought his change was (his defense of DOMA for example) they felt betrayed however they were simply used and they were eager to be used thusly.

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 Post subject: Re: Accomplishments
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:49 am 
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Don't worry the comedians might turn on him, but his beloved non partisan defenders at CNN will readily leap to his defense!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 19658.html

Quote:
By JAMES TARANTO
If you don't think "Saturday Night Live" is funny anymore, try watching CNN. Those guys are hilarious. Yesterday on Wolf Blitzer's "Situation Room," the network "fact checked" an SNL skit. No joke! The transcript is here, video is here. "How much truth is behind all the laughs?" Blitzer intoned as he teased the upcoming segment. "Stand by for our reality check."

The skit, which you can view here, features one of the "SNL" guys imitating President Obama. "When you look at my record, it's very clear what I have done so far. And that is nothing," he says. "Almost one year and nothing to show for it. You don't believe me? You think I'm making it up? Take a look at this checklist." He then rehearses a series of campaign promises--closing Guantanamo, improving Afghanistan, taking over the health-care system and so on--and declares all of them undone.

CNN interviews Bill Adair of the St. Petersburg Times's PolitiFact, one of those supposedly nonpartisan fact-checking outfits, which actually published a "study" of the "SNL" skit earlier yesterday. Adair says:

I think "SNL" tended to kind of gloss over what is a--a fair amount of progress by this administration, about sending two additional brigades to Afghanistan. We rated that [as] a promise kept. On Iraq, "Saturday Night Live" said not done and, of course, that's true, they're not done. But they hadn't promised to be done by now.Reporter Kareen Wynter adds: "As for health care, Adair says 'SNL' also got it wrong, since that legislation is still stalled in Congress." Which means it has been done? Well, whatever. "But Adair says the sketch did get some things right, like Guantanamo Bay. PolitiFact says the president has fallen short on that promise."

Podcast
James Taranto on CNN and "SNL."
"Fact checking" a comedy sketch is a bizarre exercise in itself. PolitiFact does not appear to have done the same for past "SNL" sketches spoofing Republican politicians like George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Sarah Palin. (In fact, CNN reports that Adair, in the network's words, "says the sketch won't resonate with the audience as much as" Tina Fey's Palin send-up.)

It's as if CNN and the St. Petersburg Times are trying to reinforce the impression that they are in the tank for Obama. Even Democratic operative Paul Begala, who appears on a panel after the "fact check," seems embarrassed by the exercise: "Come on. It's comedy. . . . I thought it was amusing that we actually went to people to fact-check a comedy sketch. It's comedy. It's supposed to be silly and funny."

There's another way to look at it, though: If only we'd had CNN and PolitiFact back in the 1970s, we would have known that Gerald Ford wasn't really as clumsy as Chevy Chase's portrayal of him, that Dan Aykroyd and Steve Martin weren't really two wild and crazy guys from Czechoslovakia, and that Jane Curtin is not an ignorant slut.

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 Post subject: Re: Accomplishments
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:23 am 
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They were busting CNN's balls on Twitter yesterday over this. Fact checking all the old SNL skits like "CNN finds no evidence of King Tut being born in Arizona contrary to assertions by Steve Martin"

"Experts differ over the frequently posed Fernando axiom that it is 'better to look good than to feel good'"

http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23CNNFactCheck

Funny stuff.

As for Obama not accomplishing anything yet, part of that is actually what I hoped would happen. To me, making sure we finish the job in Iraq is an accomplishment. I had hoped he wouldnt pull us out precipitously. Not closing Gitmo is pragmatic, I had assumed he wouldnt do it once he got the facts (or, if you are cynical once he won the election and was now actually responsible for what happens with the inmates.).

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 Post subject: Re: Accomplishments
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:01 am 
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This should make for an extremely funny skit about CNN on a future SNL.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:10 am 
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Hannibal wrote:
I honestly feel Obama has been making a good attempt at meeting his goals. However, I feel he's lost control of what those goals are, and has failed to keep them clearly defined. Peoples perception of what he "promised" is inflating as time goes on, which is undermining his credibility. I don't feel any administration has been faced with this level of accountability being thrown at them so early. Everything he does, says, or writes makes it's way out to the public.


Promises were there to get him elected, and were necessary. It was inevitable that his image would over-inflate over reality. A politician cannot be elected to high office without propaganda.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:42 pm 
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Hannibal wrote:
I honestly feel Obama has been making a good attempt at meeting his goals. However, I feel he's lost control of what those goals are, and has failed to keep them clearly defined. Peoples perception of what he "promised" is inflating as time goes on, which is undermining his credibility. I don't feel any administration has been faced with this level of accountability being thrown at them so early. Everything he does, says, or writes makes it's way out to the public.


I feel like this is mostly true.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:28 pm 
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:31 pm 
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He's doing about as well as I expected he would do. In nine months time, he has managed to implement policies that seem to have averted a total financial dissaster (at least for the moment, we will see if it holds). He has got farther on health care reform than any president before him, he's done a solid job on national security without resorting to torture to get it done, and it's possible that we might see a bit of movement on gay rights and climate change in the near or midling future.

I am not entirely pleased with the direction some of his policies have gone, but I didn't expect to be. I would have liked to have seen him come out swinging on the public option. I think that's probably my biggest disappointment thus far.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:21 am 
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It is interesting that Obama gets credit for "saving the economy" from his supporters for following through with the plans that Bush initiated, and is absolved of blame for Afghanistan because it was something initiated by Bush.

But I'm curious Monte, which exact policies of Obama's do you believe "averted a total financial disaster"?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:41 am 
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Monte wrote:
In nine months time, he has managed to implement policies that seem to have averted a total financial dissaster (at least for the moment, we will see if it holds).
Really? You think things are better?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:45 pm 
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Monte wrote:
He's doing about as well as I expected he would do. In nine months time, he has managed to implement policies that seem to have averted a total financial dissaster (at least for the moment, we will see if it holds). He has got farther on health care reform than any president before him, he's done a solid job on national security without resorting to torture to get it done, and it's possible that we might see a bit of movement on gay rights and climate change in the near or midling future.

I am not entirely pleased with the direction some of his policies have gone, but I didn't expect to be. I would have liked to have seen him come out swinging on the public option. I think that's probably my biggest disappointment thus far.


The stimulus hasn't worked. It didn't hold unemployment down to levels that he promised when selling it to us, among other things.

You list "progress" and "we might see a bit of movement" as accomplishments?? Maybe you are setting your standards a bit low?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:57 pm 
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I can't wait to see SNL tomorrow night, after his "latest accomplishment".


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:46 pm 
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Arathain - The republican party is completely obstructionist. Every bill that hits the floor requires 60 votes, because they filibuster everything as a matter of course. So while some might expect big things, I see that he still has big challenges in the form of a minority party that still feels entitled to majority control.

Khross - I think there are signs that the economy is on the way to recovery, yes. I also think we aren't there yet. Jobs are lagging behind, but jobs *always* lag behind in a recession. In less than a year, Obama has done more to undo the damage that Bush did than I ever could have expected. There's still a great deal to do, but if he maintains his pace, I think we might see a great deal of good come out of his first term, and hopefully a second term.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:05 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Arathain - The republican party is completely obstructionist. Every bill that hits the floor requires 60 votes, because they filibuster everything as a matter of course.


How handy, then, that they have 60 Democrats in the Senate.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Arathain - The republican party is completely obstructionist. Every bill that hits the floor requires 60 votes, because they filibuster everything as a matter of course. So while some might expect big things, I see that he still has big challenges in the form of a minority party that still feels entitled to majority control.


The republicans can't talk to someone who isn't listening. The Dems don't care what the Republicans think. They just have to make sure they can pull the moderate democrates on board. Thats the thing Obama is having problems with. His policies are too liberal for the moderate democrats.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:13 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Monte wrote:
Arathain - The republican party is completely obstructionist. Every bill that hits the floor requires 60 votes, because they filibuster everything as a matter of course.


How handy, then, that they have 60 Democrats in the Senate.



Yes and no. First of all, they have 57 democrats and 1 independent. Senator Kennedy is gone. Furthermore, that's only enough to beat a filibuster if every single solitary democrat locks step on every bill.

Bills are supposed to pass with majority vote, and the filibuster was never intended to be used against every piece of legislation that hits the senate floor. But, the Republicans have forgot their righteous indignation when Democrats filibustered pieces of legislation. The Republican howls of "undemocratic" seem to have been left behind once they lost the majority. Not that I'm shocked - it's just another tactic and an example of republican double standards. But it is what it is.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:17 pm 
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Aegnor wrote:

The republicans can't talk to someone who isn't listening. The Dems don't care what the Republicans think. They just have to make sure they can pull the moderate democrates on board. Thats the thing Obama is having problems with. His policies are too liberal for the moderate democrats.


Well, I don't see why the democrats should care what republicans think. They are going to oppose them en masse no matter the policy, because those are the battle lines they have drawn up.

The "moderate" democrats are democrats that got elected in traditionally republican districts. I wouldn't call them moderate, I would call them conservative. The Democratic platform is not extremely liberal. A public option blended with private insurance reform is a moderate approach to health care reform, for example, and the democrats you label as moderate opposed *any* public option. That's not moderate, it's pretty far to the right.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:38 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Khross - I think there are signs that the economy is on the way to recovery, yes. I also think we aren't there yet. Jobs are lagging behind, but jobs *always* lag behind in a recession.
This isn't true at all. The least 3 recessions have been jobless recoveries. Job growth was a still net-negative from the 2000 Recession when this one started. That said, job growth is non-existent right now. It's not lagging: the job market is still shrinking. And the BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) is manipulating the unemployment data something fierce in its monthly reports. The labor force is shrinking at its fastest rate ever, such that theoretically we're reaching 1 Income Household status again. The trick to the jobless recovery is that it's not a recovery at all. Household income and purchasing power remain depressed while consumption rises.

The dollar is declining faster than inflation and prices continue to rise on staple consumer commodities. The Price/Earning Ratios on major index funds spiked astronomically with no real market justification and way outside the curve. Incidentally, all three stock markets are lagging behind real inflation. More banks are collapsing (and at a growing rate), but the media isn't reporting those.

The FDIC is Bankrupt and doesn't even have enough to maintain its statutory minimums without borrowing from the Voluntary Reserve Fund (Social Security Trust accounting anyone?).

So, no, he hasn't done ANYTHING to improve the economy except expose Paul Krugman as a fraud and shill.

And that's not even getting into the nightmarish policies concerning debt and an already over-leveraged population. One need look no further than Cash for Clunkers to see that credit-patches as a systemically sick economy don't work: the 30 day period it was viable, including the lagging transactions, simply pushed up sales from later this year and depleted inventories that weren't going to move because people didn't have the money. And it cost the taxpayers millions. Incidentally, sales were down 70% month to month last money, continuing the 12-15% loss per month trend before the Cash for Clunkers program.

Montegue wrote:
In less than a year, Obama has done more to undo the damage that Bush did than I ever could have expected. There's still a great deal to do, but if he maintains his pace, I think we might see a great deal of good come out of his first term, and hopefully a second term.
He hasn't done anything except making pretty speeches and boggle every domestic policy decision he's made. His international policy is a joke; he's about to throw Afghanistan under the bus. His misstatement of military advisements is so bad that General McCrystal has to publish own assessment of the Afghanistan situation.

George W. Bush was a failure as a president. Barack Obama is a bloody nightmare.

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Last edited by Khross on Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:42 pm 
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Not every domestic policy he has stopped the Federal government from prosecuting medical pot usage in states where it is legal.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:44 pm 
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Lol...

A public option is considered moderate? See that is the problem Monty, you consider yourself the center of the spectrum, when in actuality you are far to the left. That allows you to dismiss all republicans and even some dems as right wingers.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:48 pm 
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oh, and this...

Quote:
Well, I don't see why the democrats should care what republicans think. They are going to oppose them en masse no matter the policy, because those are the battle lines they have drawn up.


Comedy gold.

Monty: Republicans are objectionist!
Me: The democrats won't even talk to the republicans.
Monty: They won't talk to them because they are obstructionists.
Me: ...


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Khross wrote:
George W. Bush was a failure as a president. Barack Obama is a bloody nightmare.


While I remain a Bush supporter (with serious reservations), I agree with this. Unfortunately, I still believe McCain would have been just as bad as Obama.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:47 am 
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Monte wrote:
There's still a great deal to do, but IF he maintains his pace, I think we MIGHT see a great deal of good come out of his first term, and hopefully a second term.


The bold is why it's so ridiculous that he's received a nobel prize.


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