The Glade 4.0

It's an acquired taste. I mostly like dessert wines.

Hey is it true that Jesus didn't actually drink wine it was just concentrated grape juice? I went my whole life thinking he drank wine, but they told us at church that it was actually a paste they made from dehydrating grape juice and then reconstituting it with water and that it had no alcohol in it whatsoever.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

No, he drank mostly beer, like Witbiers. He also enjoyed shotgunning the occasional Silver Bullet and of course, Jaegerbombs, Jello Shots and of course, Flaming Dr. Peppers.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

LadyKate, that is one statement I would like to see documentation on. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but wine was made back then and commonly available in the Middle East. He was also Jewish, and the traditions of drinking wine with a Seder go way back, well into that era.

While the drink you describe is possible, it sounds like something made up to get the members of the congregation to stop drinking wine.

Remember the wedding, where Jesus turned water into good wine? This is considered one of his miracles, his first public one. Would it have been a miracle if he just made reconstituted grape juice? Would he have made good wine he didn't expect or approve of people drinking?

It is my opinion that someone at your congregation unknowingly bought into an anti-alcohol con and is passing it on.

Alcohol is easily abused and alcoholism happens frequently when it is, but most people can drink socially or with meals without becoming an alcoholic.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

I am inclined to agree with you, Micheal, I was just a little confused since they used a lot of "the original Greek wording really means" explanations to tell us that when they said 'wine' in the bible, they were actually referring to a reconstituted non-alcoholic grape juice mixture.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Thunderbird actually.

Its Fortified!

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Holy shitsnacks!

No it was wine. Arguments to the contrary are provided by those who are trying to reverse engineer a conclusion on very shakey evidence.

Here is something that might be worth reading.
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/does-bible-permit-drinking-wine-alcohol.html

Jesus (Geez-us), not Jesus (Hey-seuss), Rafael.

LK, methinks somebody was either confused or stretching the truth. Biblical wine wasn't what we'd probably readily recognize as wine; but it was definitely fermented. It was watered (and thus weaker in taste and alcohol content than we'd expect based on modern wines), but they had to ferment it as a sanitizing measure. Antibacterial, and stuff.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Which is funny, given that Zinfandel is red.
Bitter, much? Did a bottle of bordeaux stand you up on prom night in your senior year or something?
Even if you've never had a wine that you enjoyed, it's still possible there's still something out there you will like. Given the wide range of flavor notes to be found in the many different varieties of wine, the chances of you hating all of it are somewhat slim unless you happen to strongly dislike both grapes and yeast.
Also, my enjoyment of wine has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not some religious figure or other was reported to have imbibed it in his lifetime.

As for the wine spoken of in the Bible being reconstituted grape juice, I agree that it's most likely nothing more than a fiction created by teetotalers in the church. When I was a teenager, the pastor of my parents' church told us all that what Jesus and his disciples drank was actually New wine, that being nothing more than the pressed grape juice that would become wine if allowed to ferment and thus having no alchohol content whatsoever. Given that this was a church whose by-laws specifically prohibit any alchohol consumption and I don't recall having been fed this line at any catholic church, I'm easily willing to believe it's pure self-serving fiction.

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Go back to zero, take a pill, and get well ~ Lemmy Kilmister

I'm being overtly sarcastic toward wine just for comedic effect. I don't have an opinion about wine.

I'll release your ponytail out of that Jigsaw trap you managed to get snagged in now. No thanks necessary. Doing the right thing is its own gift.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

Hmm, I wonder how well a chinese finger-trap would hold my ponytail in place.
Not that they're typically made in a size sufficient for the quantity of hair that needs to be held, but still ...

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Go back to zero, take a pill, and get well ~ Lemmy Kilmister

Drench it in some wine and wring it tight, maybe you can slip it in there.

Heh.

Slip it in there.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Zinfandel

This is what I meant

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Holy shitsnacks!

And this is that to which I was referring.

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Go back to zero, take a pill, and get well ~ Lemmy Kilmister

No, it was actual wine, although not necessarily just like ours. Acts 2:13 referrs to people making fun of the Apostles for supposedly being drunk on wine, which obviously could not happen if it weren't alcoholic.

This comes from the sort of denomination that likes to proclaim things like drinking as off limits to Christians. It's a throwback to the way Jewish laws got so incredibly complicated by Jesus's time: the rabbis wanted to "build a fence around sin", so if writing was a sin they'd make a law against picking up a pen. The most common example is disallowing waliking on grass on the Sabbath because bending the blades of grass might be "work".

The same principle applies here: Getting drunk and acting foolish/violent/etc. is sinful. However, some churches aren't satisfied with that and try to argue that a Christian shouldn't drink at all lest they become drunk. That's not a bad way to approach things, but sometimes they want to take it a step further and claim "well, drinking is really a sin in and of itself." Of course, that brings up the problem of Jesus drinking wine, telling us to drink it for Holy Communion, and changing water to wine. That's where this nonsense about "the original Greek" comes from. You can't tell what the chemical composition of a liquid is based on the original Greek term. Even if it did differ, what consituted "wine" back then and what is "wine" now is a process of evolution. "Wine" didn't just suddenly appear in the form we know it today.

It really defies the imagination for a number of reasons 1) it involves the Church taking a major risk in using alcohol for Communion for 1800 years until this novel idea of "all drinking = sin" appeared in America. If they'd used grape juice for communion for all that time and drank outside of worship one could argue that they were just ignoring that alcohol was sinful (which in itself is a highly predjudiced generalization about pre-American Protestant churches), but since they actually used it in Communion, that doesn't hold water.

2) It is a real leap to think that alcholic beverages were unknown at the time, or that Jews studiously avoided them for some reason (there is nothing in Jewish law forbidding alcohol in and of itself), or that fermented wine could not have been made.

3) Timothy 5:23 specifically tells someone to take a little wine. Agin, one might claim "Well it's not really wine", but then we either need to think wine/alcohol was unknown at the time (absurd) or that Paul thought it unimportant to make it clear what sort of wine he was talking about.

The bottom line is that anyone telling you that the wine of the NT isn't really wine is pulling something out of his ***.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."