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 Post subject: Your personal religion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:20 am 
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Homeric Hero
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What is it? If you don't have one, you might as well sit in front of tv all day!

Here is mine, after a decent amount of thought. It is a religion of autonomy and life. It is constantly changing, although slowly. Achilles from the Iliad is my favorite fictional role model.

1) You are born a champion, and you don't have to prove it to anyone.


-you have prerogative to do anything you want
-you have the choice to be an alpha or a beta (a pack animal)... lots of people don't understand the difference
-you are born equal to everyone, but you are the most important
-you have the potential to amazing self-growth, regardless of what anyone else says

2) You are already fulfilled.


-always searching for fulfillment is an insecurity
-don't strive to be a perfectionist. that's an insecurity.

3) Always identify righteous action and take it, regardless of bad emotion

-laziness is being a reactor and not an actor. it's so easy to be lazy like everyone else... just so easy.
-righteous action should eventually be fun or meditative and not too stressful
-it's ok if it's stressful at first if it eventually becomes fun or meditative
-righteous action is action that helps your life, and eventually the lives of others
-righteous action does not require a logical reason that can be explained to others

4) Picking up girls and warfare are the most effective ways to desensitization and self-growth

-this is so true it's not even funny.
-this will force you to live in the moment
-this paves the way to efficient emotional growth, which is necessary for a champion
-theories mean nothing compared to real emotional turmoil that can be used as a platform for self-growth
-desensitization is the only way to not be dependent on others for fulfillment

5) Be expressive and honest about your intentions

-if something is on the tip of your tongue, you're better off just saying it 99% of the time.
-however, don't try too hard to be expressive. having to always talk is an insecurity
-greatly reduces stress
-people should never be treated as construction projects. don't be a snake.
-honesty is integrity

6) Know that everyone is trying to do good, and recognize the good in others

-still be realistic about other people's intentions

7) Don't care what anyone else thinks

-but still be observant of what they think!
-be firm in your beliefs
-not caring is the only way to have integrity

8) Use the humiliation by others as a platform of growth

-you are the source of all your own emotions!
-recognize the influential, charismatic behavior in others that made you feel a certain way and respect it
-as an autonomous champion and social individual, you will always acquire haters. just grow from it.

9) Help others when you can


-the secondary goal of righteous action is to help others.
-you are part of a greater whole
-helping others also helps you, 99% of the time
-cherish the existence of other life and realize it is the most beautiful thing. even a grasshopper is more powerful than the best super computer.

10) HAVE FUN.


-greatly reduces stress
-the world is your playground and you should play
-when all else fails...
-----just do what you feel like
-----be expressive if you feel like it, or don't if you feel like it
-----be autonomous like a 2 year old is autonomous
-----revert to being like a little kid
-----throw stuff at other stuff
-----you're just a caveman with fancy clothes

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:59 am 
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Homeric Hero
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Basically... what it comes down to... the world is an arena for heroism. Your ego is a huge lie. Your death is inevitable.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:06 pm 
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most greek heroes dont die so well...

in fact the term 'tragic flaw' is oft used to describe their failings that lead to their undoing. Pride is most commonly the flaw.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:08 pm 
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Noli me calcare
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Hubris

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:05 pm 
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Homeric Hero
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TheRiov wrote:
most greek heroes dont die so well...

in fact the term 'tragic flaw' is oft used to describe their failings that lead to their undoing. Pride is most commonly the flaw.


Every hero dies well. A fear of death is like being a woman or child... beta male.

The time of death is when you are a ripe fruit being cut from a tree.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:07 pm 
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*chuckle* if you say so.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:13 pm 
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Homeric Hero
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The purpose of your ego is to rationally justify everything and keep you tied to fear. It keeps you chained as a beta male.

Giving up your ego makes you alpha. It makes you fearless and willing to embrace whatever comes. It makes you live in the present and strive towards great things without fear-based justification. You also become more desensitized to pleasure and pain... stuff that bothers weak men and women.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:27 pm 
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Spoiler:
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll
i will not feed the troll


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:31 pm 
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Homeric Hero
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In fact... I think there are two forms of rationalizing...

One is to formulate great ways to next dominate and enjoy it, and what to presently do. It is to find the next greatest way to heroically jump through the existential abyss.

The other is fear-based rationalizing. You find reasons why you are already good enough and settled, and why you don't need to do anything. This is the ego... like sand in your brain. It is like running around the arena instead of joining the melee in the middle. It's just fear. But you're going to die anyways. The fruit isn't necessary to sustain the tree. You don't need to have kids. It's ok if you are dealt the deathblow, but you should die fighting and not as a weak person who never lived.

I guess without the ego, there would be no heroes... just chaos... interesting. The ego leads to herd behavior, creating a reactive society for the chaotic heroes to act within.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:45 pm 
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Also... the result of anything is never as good as the doing. It's so fascinating. The abyss only stares back. The moment of a heroic death is probably one of the most glorious things ever. It's the best part of a movie or book, and is probably the best part of your life. I wonder if hospitalization in general for men is like a sin... nah, probably not. That's a little too extreme.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:54 pm 
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An important question is what happens when the heroism is not witnessed by the society? Is it meaningless? If a wolf dies before it jumps into a flock of sheep, and the sheep weren't aware, was the wolf's existence meaningless? Even if the wolf is a genius wolf, its impact might be minimal.

I would say not. Playing Russian Roulette is not meaningless to me even if I survive. Playing Russian Roulette with society is not meaningless, even if society isn't aware. An observed party is always affected by the observer. Or maybe it doesn't matter either way... interesting...

I guess being like a poet is equal to being like a wolf... and wolves can become poets... or poets wolves... or both lead or get killed by society... remaining beta will definitely keep you as a nobody, however.

An attachment to an identity is an attachment to society. It is admitting that you are part of society and not part of God... part of the dilemma of Achilles. It is admitting that you aren't entitled to face the abyss. It is forsaking your consciousness and becoming a slave.

edit:

Ok... back to work...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:37 pm 
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Hehe reading your posts Imp, it feels like sometimes your mind goes off on a tangent then has a hard time coming back.

Ego does not have to have anything to do with heroism, sometimes it’s enough to know that you’re good enough to achieve when others fail. Many in history with egos big enough to fit in the karanos do not chose heroism themselves; I give you Napolean and Hitler just as a quick example.

Heroism is usually linked to action, most of the time action with out thought. So while it looks good in movies and story books, I implore that you explore another word known as wisdom. Heroism with out wisdom is merely stupidity, however with it you’ll find that it’ll open a lot more doors.

Fear is a funny thing. We humans are naturally programmed to fight or flight. While you can make a conscience decision given enough time, your natural reaction is one semi ingrained in your DNA.

All 3 can, however it is usually not necessary to have ties between them. You are attempting to create a two way equal sign when there are usually none. Each person choses or sometimes is chosen for them how much of each they carry. Remember that wisdom and forethought is what makes each work to your favour and not any of those alone.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:55 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:04 pm 
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Man, what the hell are you talking about? Just because words go together to make a grammatically correct sentence (most of the time), doesn't mean they are correct in any other aspect.

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The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:21 pm 
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Imperi wrote:
What is it? If you don't have one, you might as well sit in front of tv all day!


I agree mostly. You've stumbled on the Christian belief of having a personal relationship with your savior. I'm sure it exists in some other religions, its just the Christian version I am most familiar with.

Imperi wrote:
Here is mine, after a decent amount of thought. It is a religion of autonomy and life. It is constantly changing, although slowly. Achilles from the Iliad is my favorite fictional role model.


With all due respect to your thought process, you choose a hero who cannot be defeated except through his one weakness? Might as idolize Superman. The literary usage of Achilles Heel and Kryptonite are so closely related as to have almost no difference. Rhetorical: What do you see as your one and only weakness?

Imperi wrote:
1) You are born a champion, and you don't have to prove it to anyone.

-you have prerogative to do anything you want
-you have the choice to be an alpha or a beta (a pack animal)... lots of people don't understand the difference
-you are born equal to everyone, but you are the most important
-you have the potential to amazing self-growth, regardless of what anyone else says


In my opinion no, you are born an infant, grow into a child and your growth is shaped by external forces as well as your own will and strength. There is a small conflict in being 'born a champion' and 'amazing potential for self growth'. You may be born equal to everyone (philosophically) but the only one you are most important to you may be yourself. The ego inherent in needing to be 'the most important' is what shapes competition, but not everyone can be 'the winner'. Being able to recognize that other people have value and are worthy of your respect is important. If you do not respect another's accomplishments, why would you push yourself to better them? Those who come before us set the goal, it is up to us to respect their achievements, and better them if we can. This raises a question I've been wondering about Lex. Are other people real to you? Do you see them as individuals, or do we all blend into the background, automatons going inactive as soon as you leave the area?

Imperi wrote:
2) You are already fulfilled.

-always searching for fulfillment is an insecurity
-don't strive to be a perfectionist. that's an insecurity.


No, you are an empty cup, unfilled and unfulfilled. It is up to you to create the experiences that fulfill you. Otherwise you will be like a paper cup sitting on a stone, empty most of the time, occasionally filled partially or fully by the rain, until you rot away alone and forgotten. Go out and experience the world and find your joy where you can. Strive for perfection, you will never reach it, and can acknowledge that, but strive for the goal. Striving to be a perfectionist is like striving to be neurotic.

Imperi wrote:
3) Always identify righteous action and take it, regardless of bad emotion

-laziness is being a reactor and not an actor. it's so easy to be lazy like everyone else... just so easy.
-righteous action should eventually be fun or meditative and not too stressful
-it's ok if it's stressful at first if it eventually becomes fun or meditative
-righteous action is action that helps your life, and eventually the lives of others
-righteous action does not require a logical reason that can be explained to others


Live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse? Taking righteous action is not always possible no matter how much you would like to take that action. There are things out of your control. Not acknowledging that is a road to insanity. Righteous action is almost always selfless, not selfish. I'm afraid I strongly disagree with most of this.

Imperi wrote:
4) Picking up girls and warfare are the most effective ways to desensitization and self-growth

-this is so true it's not even funny.
-this will force you to live in the moment
-this paves the way to efficient emotional growth, which is necessary for a champion
-theories mean nothing compared to real emotional turmoil that can be used as a platform for self-growth
-desensitization is the only way to not be dependent on others for fulfillment


You are so very very young. Warfare is a battle between tribes, countries, or alliances. War is not a self growth tool, it is horror. Warfare kills indiscriminately, the good, the bad, the indifferent, none stand a chance against a well placed explosive. Even in honorable combat between individuals, the most skilled and prepared almost always wins. Right or wrong has nothing to do with it.

Imperi wrote:
5) Be expressive and honest about your intentions
-if something is on the tip of your tongue, you're better off just saying it 99% of the time.
-however, don't try too hard to be expressive. having to always talk is an insecurity
-greatly reduces stress
-people should never be treated as construction projects. don't be a snake.
-honesty is integrity


Learn to be discrete. Babbling out your wants, desires, goals to anyone who will listen puts you at a disadvantage. Decide what you want, then negotiate from a point of strength. Give the opposition no information they haven't earned. Honesty is honesty, it may not be integrity. If someone says to you, "I am an honest man, but I do not respect you and will sell you out in a heartbeat if I see a profit in it. Just thought you should know that." They are being honest, they are telling you not to trust their integrity, they are in it for themselves and once more, you are not the most important one, not to them anyway.

Imperi wrote:
6) Know that everyone is trying to do good, and recognize the good in others

-still be realistic about other people's intentions


Not everyone is trying to do good. some folks get off on causing grief, not helping.

Imperi wrote:
7) Don't care what anyone else thinks

-but still be observant of what they think!
-be firm in your beliefs
-not caring is the only way to have integrity


Contradictory and naive. Don't care but be observant? Be firm but don't care? Once more I wonder how real you consider other people. I also wonder if you realize that to some other people in your life, you may not be real.


Imperi wrote:
8) Use the humiliation by others as a platform of growth

-you are the source of all your own emotions!
-recognize the influential, charismatic behavior in others that made you feel a certain way and respect it
-as an autonomous champion and social individual, you will always acquire haters. just grow from it.


You receive training from early on about how to feel. Your emotions are frequently learned behavior. There are a lot of people that don't understand me, very few if any that actually hate me, to my knowledge.

Imperi wrote:
9) Help others when you can

-the secondary goal of righteous action is to help others.
-you are part of a greater whole
-helping others also helps you, 99% of the time
-cherish the existence of other life and realize it is the most beautiful thing. even a grasshopper is more powerful than the best super computer.


I would replace secondary with primary. Other than that I pretty much agree with you here.

Imperi wrote:
10) HAVE FUN.

-greatly reduces stress
-the world is your playground and you should play
-when all else fails...
-----just do what you feel like
-----be expressive if you feel like it, or don't if you feel like it
-----be autonomous like a 2 year old is autonomous
-----revert to being like a little kid
-----throw stuff at other stuff
-----you're just a caveman with fancy clothes


Mostly agree, with some exceptions.

Keep thinking Lex, be happy, do some personal growth, and if you disagree with me, well I wouldn't be surprised. Don't think I'm trying to put you down, we're all different, we will approach life differently. I may see holes and contradictions in your philosophy, but we are different people and I know I am a beta. If this works for you right now, be true to yourself. Hopefully someday you will find someone that you truly want to be true to as well.

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"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:45 am 
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Homeric Hero
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Life is full of contradictions and paradoxes. Recognizing paradoxes is a great way to self-growth. If you only care about helping others, then you will become like a great prophet. And you will likely also selfishly benefit the most... if you aren't martyred. It's a great, and perhaps paradoxically equal, approach to what I'm doing. I'm an extremist, but I haven't figured out how to be a 100% extremist yet. I'm more like a 90% extremist. My belief system is far from concrete, but it's better than nothing. I'm also quite inexperienced, but I can make up for this with raw guts and courage. I only like extreme belief systems, because I like to have an interesting life. I find moderation boring. It's just a personal decision. I don't think everyone needs to be an extremist like me. I like every day to be like Groundhog Day.

People become more real to me the longer I've known them. I care about people more as I get to know them better. Caring about people too much before you really know them is called obsession. Girls don't care about me when they cancel dates (not whining... just stating a fact). I prefer excitement over caring about feelings... however, paradoxically, a high social awareness and consideration of their feelings leads to social acceptance. So I guess, ultimately, both are the same. It takes lots of life experience dealing with unknown interpersonal territory to reach this point. You can't go from nerdy computer science guy to cult leader without lots of life experience in between.

I guess caring about everyone equally (including yourself) is also a great goal. It means you are obsessed with everyone. Nobody is necessary for your fulfillment. It's another extreme and valid position. In such a belief system, everyone is equally real, meaning you are still fearless. Everyone is your friend.

(edit... I might radically alter my belief system to the above eventually... it makes my belief system sound more acceptable)

Theodore Roosevelt believed that war was great for the development of a young man. Just saying. Most battle-hardened veterans are extremely mature guys. They tend to cherish life, know how to have fun, have a deep understanding of things, can have strong non-needy relationships, etc.

(edit: I haven't seen statistics for the above point, but I will believe this until proven wrong. Maybe I'm just full of ****)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:14 am 
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Also, Achilles is my favorite hero because he was flawed and great at the same time. He had ego issues. He was like a selfish, little kid. He strove for greatness, nonetheless. He respected people who he felt deserved respect. He was always honest. He was self-motivated. He defined his own values, which were often subject to change. He knew how to have fun. He relentlessly expressed his opinions, and relentlessly acted on his whims. He rationally decided at times to hold himself back. He was young and reckless. I like to think he is a lot like me.

Ultimately, he chose individual sovereignty over following the will of the Greeks; in other words, he chose to battle against society to maintain his individuality. He didn't see any purpose in holding back. His rage consumed him and he martyred himself. And it didn't make sense to anyone except Achilles. The perspective of Achilles was the only important reality to Achilles. He eventually stopped caring about his ego. He didn't care what anyone else thought of him. Achilles was great at relieving his stress. He did not try to be a snake. He lived every day to its fullest. It's a nearly divine level of thought and action, in my opinion. Nobody is perfect.

It's so easy to strive towards the type of great person who doesn't like women or who wants to give up all desire... and be a nobody. A monk who lives in an abbey in the woods and doesn't interact with society is hardly doing better than janitor who is fully content with his position. It's the easy way out. You might as well be a computer nerd, and fantasize on the Internet about great things instead of actually attempting them. Achilles is more respectable in my opinion.

Like I said before, helping others is also a great goal. But I am not at that point yet. I want to get my own stuff together first. Arguably, it should be my perspective that my presence is always helpful to others. I like this perspective. Dwelling on perspectives is another form of inaction, amusingly, but I like to talk about this stuff.

Teaching others is perhaps an eventual goal in the far future, but I'm incredibly inexperienced. I need to first teach myself.

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