The Glade 4.0

Aye, I love this dog, but I probably wouldn't have chosen a boxer myself, since they do seem to require an owner with a more overt and sustained alpha personality than I naturally possess. She came as a package deal with my g/f though, so what's a guy to do, right? Of course, now that I've had her for so long and helped raise her from a puppy, I wouldn't trade her for the world.

Depends. If we're in the park, I let her roam around on the 16' retractable leash, but if we're on the sidewalk, I mostly keep her in the heel position (short leash, slightly behind and to my right) unless she's actively sniffing for a place to pee/poop.

Yeah, I wouldn't crate her all day. If it comes to that, I'll just keep sending her to daycare while I'm at work. She seems to love it anyway. I would just use the crate, if necessary, as a temporary training tool and for the short-duration departures on the weekend - e.g. going to a movie, getting dinner, etc. - until we can get her comfortable being alone. As for the dog-door, I wish! We're in a second-floor apartment with no yard, unfortunately.

In my experience, I have found that certain dogs absolutely need kennel training, and sometimes that takes awhile. You are right, dogs were not designed to live in small cages all day but for many dogs its a necessary part of development and if a dog has regressed then you need to go back to the beginning and start over.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

This thread got me curious, so I did some Googling and confirmed it's highly likely my Siamese cat has separation anxiety.

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Go back to zero, take a pill, and get well ~ Lemmy Kilmister

It's true that dogs weren't "meant" to be confined to small crates. The fact is, they weren't meant to live in small apartments either. Especially very active breeds.

Kenneling may be effective at getting a dog to be better behaved, there is no getting away from the fact that it's tantamount to torture for a breed like that to be boxed up all day. They will eventually adapt. It's what all living things do.

This is why I don't have a dog. I love dogs, and I'd love to have one, but I live in a small condo, with no fenced yard, and would not put an animal through being confined like that, nor having to be at home all day by themselves. I personally consider it cruel.

Dogs are den dwellers. They actually like crating. They have a need to be out, and get exercise but it actually makes them feel fairly secure.

Humans are arboreal in descent. We're not pack animals. Our psychology is vastly different. Don't anthropomorphize too much.

Depends on the breed, as you said, but yeah, that's why I currently pay a small fortune for doggie-daycare, and why best case scenario is that I'll end up paying a slightly smaller fortune for several long walks per day instead if she ever gets to the point where she can be alone for 2-3 hours at a time. Leaving her alone at home all day definitely isn't an option we'd consider.

Wolves are den dwellers. Dogs dwell with people. Dogs have adapted to us, and are most at ease when we're around - especially when they are unbalanced. When a dog is accustomed to roaming the house it will freak in a crate. When the dog has become accumstomed to the crate, and it can leave and enter it when it wants then it becomes a safe, calming place.
A dog with anxiety issues is already unbalanced and forced crating will exacerbate the issue. It's better to come home to some dog piss/crap on the floor and an anxious dog than to come home to a dog covered in its own urine and feces because it was confined to a crate and lost all control. A balanced dog abhors conditions like that, and it will add tremendous stress to an already stressed dog.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

dogs won't soil the space they view as their den if they can avoid it.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Sorry Vin, I disagree with you.
Short of 24/7 dog training, going back to kennel training for a dog (stressed or not) is a good approach. It narrows their focus, eliminates distractions, and gets them back to the basics of what their boundaries are. I've been around many dogs and almost every one of them quickly learned not to use the bathroom in their kennel, provided they were allowed out to use the restroom at appropriate times.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

But we're not talking about balanced dogs.

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Holy shitsnacks!

No, you don't. At least about this; hitting an animal is a different matter.

If you will go back and read my suggestions to RD, I advocated creating a place where the dog feels safe:


That seems to be what you are advocating. I completely disagree with the people that are saying that it's a good idea to "crate" the dog. That doesn't imply anything other than stuffing a dog in a crate, and thinking it's better because the dog can't get out and wreck stuff.



That part of the dog that retains its sanity will be freaked by the fact that it's covered in its own excrement. It will not help the situation.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I'm pretty confused, dude...sounds like you are either telling me what I'm agreeing with or saying that you agree with kennel training your dog??

One of many personal examples: We had a dog that liked to jump on couches and beds to pee. She would not pee anywhere else. When left in a room alone, she would find something to destroy and something to poop on. When left alone at night she would whine incessantly. When bored, she would bark.
I started putting her in a kennel. No peeing on the bed, no peeing on the sofa, no poop on the floor, no barking or whining unless there was a stranger or she had to go to the bathroom.
She spent the day chained up outside, and spent the rest of the time in her kennel. She came out for walks, for eating, for going to the bathroom, and for limited amounts of "free time" in the house as long as someone was watching her.
She had to stay in her kennel....it actually taught her a lot and improved her behavior.

We have another dog who is much more obedient and does not require a kennel at all.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Noone is advocating locking a dog in its crate/kennel for so long that it has no choice but to foul itself. That's inhumane.

You still have to let your animal out to relieve itself, etc. Yes, accidents happen, but crate training /= locking a dog in a cage 24/7.

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Holy shitsnacks!

It is not "necessary" for any breed of dog. Crating may accomplish some owner goal, but it is not good for the dog. It's BS. If you can't provide adequate facilities for your animal, don't get an animal. No offense, RD, but a high-energy dog like a boxer in an apartment? Wow. I had a husky in an apartment for a bit. DISASTER. I moved to an appropriate location.

High-energy dogs like boxers are not going to respond well to a crate. Crates, again, are **** up, but more relaxed breeds can handle them somewhat better.

WTF. That's messed up.

Come on, this is foolishness. I advocated using a crate in my initial post. Yes, train the dog, make it feel that the crate is a safe place. This requires you to be around to do it. You can't just put the dog in the crate when you leave and expect it to solve the problem.


Do you think RD locks the dog in the apartment for so long that it has no choice but to foul itself? Do you think RD leaves the dog in the apartment 24/7?
A dog that has separation anxiety to such a level that it relieves itself in the house will do the same in a crate. If the dog is unaccustomed to a crate the anxiety the dog feels will be greatly increased if it is confined and the situation will become worse. The posts advocating simply that RD "crate" the dog and that dogs "like crating" are, prima facie, counter-productive.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Aye, none taken. She's definitely not an ideal apartment dog, and if she was cooped up inside all day, I wouldn't think it was fair to her. As it is, though, I do think that between daycare during the week and my walks with her on the weekend, she gets plenty of exercise and play/interaction with both people and other dogs. It's just expensive and time-consuming for me; she doesn't seem unhappy!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion with your own dogs, but not with mine. This is what worked for her, and I don't see a problem with it.

While I would have loved to turn her loose outside and let her run around, we have little yard and no fence. Not everyone has a nice big fenced in back yard or time to monitor their dogs 24/7, and I resent the implication that the lack of those things means a bad environment for the dog.

I see nothing wrong with having a dog on a 12ft chain during the day and a kennel at night, fresh food and water, exercise, love and attention.

I spent my time working in a vet clinic and volunteering at both local humane societies and I can assure you that just because an owner doesn't have a huge yard or chains their dog up or keeps them in a kennel does not necessarily mean a bad life for the dog. There are so many animals that get put to sleep simply because they have no home. The local shelters here are "kill" shelters and both directors will tell you that having a small apartment or kenneling a dog or chaining them in the yard does not equal neglect or "unfair to the dog." As long as they get fresh food, water, exercise, healthcare, love & attention, the rest does not matter.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Dogs are den dwellers, which they inherit from their wolf ancestors of course.

Arathain Kelvar,

You're wrong in this thread. Keeping a dog in a crate 24 hours a day would be cruel. You have to give them exercise and walk them, but if you do that then crating them is perfectly fine and can be very good for the dog. Like TheRiov said, you are anthropomorphizing dogs too much. They are not humans, they don't think like humans, and they don't react to situations the same way that humans do. You stick a human in a small enclosed space, and they are likely to have issues. The same is not true for a dog.

Regarding the original post. Try this...prepare to leave, don't say goodbye to the dog or anything like that ever. Once he realizes you are leaving he will probably act up. Correct him. Don't yell at him or anything like that, just calmly and confidently tell him no, or make a sound (I usually say "hey!"). If he doesn't react to that then firmly and quickly touch him at his neck or on his side in the spot between his ribs and his back legs. Claim the space around the door when you leave. Keep him several feet back and correct him if he gets closer. Close the door to leave and if you hear him come up to the door and start whining or something, the open it up and correct him, then try again. Eventually leave for a couple minues, and reward him if he does well.

Ladykate:

Whatever you say....

Aegnor:

Not buying it. I know dogs aren't people, of course. Sure they will handle it better thank people but it is not good for them. If they want to hang out in a "den", they can do so. Locking them up for extended periods of time is not "good" for them. They may not suffer, depending on the breed (a boxer will), but it is in no way good for them to lock them up.

Crating is not in any way necessary. It's tolerable for people without adequate facilities. You don't "need" to crate a dog.

In my opinion, owners just don't like to deal with the consequences of having an animal inside all day messing up the place, so they convince themselves it "prefers" to be locked in a cage. It's nonsense.

Whatever Arathain. Believe what you want. I can understand. We love our dogs and too often people start thinking of them as people. They don't do things that would be good for a dog because they think it would be cruel (as it'd be cruel if you did it to a human) and do things to a dog that are cruel because they think they are being nice to the dog.

For instance, some people provide no discipline or leadership to the dog because they don't want to be "mean". The dog freaks out because their human isn't being the leader. They think "oh crap! Its up to me!". So then they become the pack leader. Only problem, dogs suck at being a pack leader for a human which makes them very unhappy, and they end up being aggressive towards the human (as it is the pack leader's job to exercise discipline upon their subordinates).

Our dogs were always "crated" at night when they were puppies...of course I have the luxury of being home during the day and we have a fenced yard for them to run around in as well. I was able to spend the time training the dogs as they grew...not everyone can, which is why there are obedience trainers! Dogs are like children...they need to learn their boundaries and learn who is boss.

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