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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:08 pm 
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And I can see it's made a huge splash here...

So what's the word? Piece of **** Wii rip-off, just no good games right now, so good that you just don't have time to break away from using it to post?

Waiting on the Kinect, or just waiting out the whole movement-based craze?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:37 pm 
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Been following the Move on the GAF forums, and apparently the hardware itself is being praised by critics.

Wiki confirms this:
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The PlayStation Move has received positive reviews. Game Informer gave it an 8 out of 10 saying "The PlayStation Eye and motion controller are a killer combination for accurate and highly responsive motion-based gameplay, and we applaud Sony for getting the hardware right the first time."[65] Kotaku praised its accuracy, design, use of augmented reality and said that "The Playstation Move is a intuitive, natural feeling way to play games and it brings with it not only a sense of increased immersion to already graphically immersive games, but a new way to play with your reality and a refreshing form of colorful feedback."[68] IGN gave the Move an 8.5 out of 10 , noting that the launch line-up of games for the controller was insufficient though it summarized by saying "At the end of the day, the PlayStation Move has the potential to be the best motion control system on the current crop of consoles."[66] Joystiq praised the Move saying "The hardware's great, and I can see it being used in a multitude of really cool ways, but of course it's only as cool as the games that use it" and that the launch line-up was not worth the purchase at launch though it believes that the Move would be worth the purchase in early 2011 due to a stronger line-up of games such as SOCOM 4 and Killzone 3.[69] CVG gave the Move an extremely positive review awarding it 9 out of 10 saying that "Sony's motion control gets beyond being a gimmick. We found ourselves constantly itching for "one more go"."[64] The Guardian strongly criticized the Move's launch line-up, though it noted that the hardware was strong and that after playing with the Move it was "very hard to go back to the relative inaccuracy of the Wii."[70]


Software? Well not as much. Generally around average to slightly above average, with a few stinkers. Of course this is still launch we're talking about.

Still nothing warranting a purchase from me until (like the quote above said), early next year. Sports Championship is slightly intriguing, but would only pick it up because it comes in the bundle.

Waiting on Sorcery myself:

[youtube]llAI7lNd6OQ[/youtube]


Last edited by Rodahn on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm 
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The only move game I'm tempted to try is Sorcery.

As for Kinect, the voice/movement controlled menu navigation seems like it might be useful but I'm skeptical.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:33 pm 
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I liked what The Alexandrian had to say on the subject, although mostly he was addressing the Kinect.
Spoiler:
The Playstation Move and the Kinect will both fail.

This isn't because they aren't worthy technology: The Kinect is potentially revolutionary and slagging the Move because it's dupiing the Wii's controller is like slagging the Sega Genesis because it duped the NES controller. It's obviously true. It's also irrelevant.

But they will fail. Because add-on controllers for video games will always fail.

THE SIMPLE MATH

There have been 40 million X-Box 360s sold worldwide. The cut-off point for the Top 10 games sold for the X-Box 360 is Fable II with 2.6 million copies. Which means that if you can sell your X-Box 360 game to just 6.5% of your potential customers, you can break into the Top 10 list (which would obviously qualify your game as a huge success).

Now, let's assume that the Kinect is a huge success as a technology platform and sells to 25% of X-Box 360 owners. This would mean 10 million Kinects sold with somewhere between $1 and $1.5 billion in total sales. Huge success for Microsoft.

Despite this massive success for the Kinect, however, the developer of a Kinect game is still going to be struggling: In order to sell the same 2.6 million copies of a Kinect game, they now need to achieve a 26% market penetration.

In other words, under this incredibly rosy scenario for Kinect, a developer has a choice: If they develop a non-Kinect game, their potential audience is 40 million customers. If they develop a Kinect game, on the other hand, their potential audience is 10 million and they'll have to literally quadruple their performance in order to achieve the exact same success.

That decision is practically a no-brainer. Which is why game developers rarely develop games for add-on controllers and virtually never bother developing AAA titles for them.

IT GETS WORSE

But in practice things are even worse for the Kinect.

The second best-selling game on the X-Box 360 is Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, which sold 7.5 million copies on the platform. But total sales for that game are almost twice that (at least 14 million, possibly more than 15 million). If it had been a Kinect game (and thus exclusive to the X-Box 360 platform) none of those additional sales would have happened. One of the most successful video games in history would suddenly only be half as successful.

Which means that a game developer doesn't have to just quadruple their performance with a Kinect game, they actually have to increase it by seven- or eight-fold in order to match their potential success with a non-Kinect game.

THE (NOT SO) BIG PREDICTION

Of the two technologies (Move and Kinect), I trivially predict that Kinect will be more successful. Not because it's cooler or more innovative (although that may attract a few developers in its own right), but because I believe it will be easier for designers to incorporate Kinect-enhancements into games which will not require the Kinect (and can therefore still be marketed to the total X-Box 360 market and ported to other platforms).

For example, in Assassin's Creed 2 there's a section where one of the NPCs suddenly stops talking to the protagonist and instead turns to the camera and begins directly addressing the player. (Which, in itself, was a pretty nifty bit of meta-narrative since you're actually playing as the guy who's playing the Assassin's Creed 2 simulation.) The effect is pretty cool. But it would have been even cooler if the game had a Kinect-enhancement which allowed the NPC to look directly at me no matter where I was sitting in the room (or even follow me around if I chose to get up and move around).

If I was Microsoft, I'd be doing everything in my power to convince AAA developers to include these kinds of subtle "Kinect Enhancements" to their games. If they could pull it off, they might even find the magic bullet to disprove my prediction: Making the X-Box 360 version of every AAA title into the "best" version of that game would not only help to sell the Kinect hardware (since every game you buy would make the Kinect more valuable to you), it could also prove to be a potentially devastating blow for Microsoft's competitors (turning even cross-platform AAA releases into something akin to a "semi-exclusive" for the X-Box 360).

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:57 pm 
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Way too early to tell whether the Kinect or Move will succeed or fail. Only speculation at this point.

Keep in mind, until the Wii actually did it, no one seriously thought Nintendo would sweep the market like they have with a motion-based platform.

I speculate that neither peripheral (because that's what they ultimately are) will revolutionize anything, because both suffer from "Been there, done that"-itis.

He does bring up a good point about market penetration, but I see that as something in the hands of the respective parent companies' marketing departments, as well as developers choosing to make their games optimized and compatible with these peripherals.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:07 pm 
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That is, indeed, pretty sage.

On the other hand, Move's similarity to Wii probably benefits it vs. Kinect, in that you can make a dual-platform game that uses wand controllers as its core mechanic. Being available on two platforms, you're not crippling yourself by making yourself exclusive, and one of the platforms even has it as required hardware -- so instead of carving out 25% of one console's installbase as your market, you get 125% of a console's installbase as your market (100% of one, and 25% of another). Toss in that the 100% installbase is the leading console marketshare-wise, and now it's not a tough sell for developers at all to make wand core mechanic games. And Sony then gets the advantage it enjoys (vs. the Wii, unarguably) in other cross platform games, that it looks better.

It'll be interesting to see if they can leverage the marketshare high enough, though. As that Alexandrian guy pointed out, 25% would be a massive success for the peripheral. And given the disproportion between the Wii and PS3, even that would be more like 110% of the Wii's marketshare. Talking a developer into doing twice the coding (and doing that extra coding on a Sony system, which I've always heard developers whine about, to boot) and with higher detail art assets for a 10% increase in market probably won't be a breeze.

The important thing at this point, though, is that the development of these peripherals indicates motion controls will be standard features on the next generation across the board. In which case, Nintendo has done its job, as far as I'm concerned.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:38 pm 
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Kaffis wrote:
The important thing at this point, though, is that the development of these peripherals indicates motion controls will be standard features on the next generation across the board.

God, I hope not. Crash and burn, mo-controls.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:57 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
God, I hope not. Crash and burn, mo-controls.


QFT. Motion controls are **** horrible.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:09 pm 
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Raltar wrote:
FarSky wrote:
God, I hope not. Crash and burn, mo-controls.


QFT. Motion controls are **** horrible.

QFT for QFT'ing FarSky.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:15 pm 
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Still a gimmick, just like 3-D. They'll stick around for 10 years or so, while the industry pumps them to make more money. I'll be interested to see what survives.

I'm abstaining until the kinect also hits, and then games come out, and then people decide which one blows the most. Right now, it definitely looks like move is most precise.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:23 am 
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Motion control has it's uses. Driving is one. Driving on the wii Kart style is better than any adapter add-on wheel ever made. Plus it's console native. The screen tracking also is good situationally (fps especially with a gun adapter). Adding motion control to games that don't need it (Im looking a you Zelda)is yes simply a gimmick.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:52 am 
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Uinan wrote:
The only move game I'm tempted to try is Sorcery.



Same here...it's the only game that looks really fun...except for maybe Killzone 3. Boxing seems like it might be fun with the PS Move...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:53 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
Motion control has it's uses. Driving is one. Driving on the wii Kart style is better than any adapter add-on wheel ever made.


You're joking right? That's just so blatantly wrong that I can barely wrap my head around it. The crummy wiimote steering is absolute junk and cannot compare in any way to 900 degree steering wheels. No wavey motion controls will ever compare to the response of a real wheel controller.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:43 am 
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Darkroland wrote:
Still a gimmick, just like 3-D.


3D isn't a gimmick. Anyone here besides me with a 3D setup that can attest to how awesome it is? The glasses may be a gimmick, and adoption rates may take a while, but I can say this about 3D: it's gotten me playing my PS3 again. It's also gotten me excited for exclusives I never would have picked up otherwise (I'm looking at you, Killzone).

Likewise, everyone that has used the Move is impressed with the hardware and accuracy. The hurdle with making it popular, though, is going to be in the software. Software that is so far lackluster.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:28 pm 
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Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest kinda intrigues me, but I haven't seen any reviews yet.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:09 pm 
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I'm such a freaking gadget whore.

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I'll post impressions after Castle.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:13 pm 
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If they make a ParaPara Paradise game for Kinect that actually WORKS, I'll buy it in a second

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:19 pm 
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Nice, FarSky.

I'm pretty much sold on the hardware. Just need more input on current software before purchasing.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:35 am 
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If you are on the fence you might as well wait for more software...but the hardware works beautifully, and only takes a moment with it to see how vastly superior to the Wii's controls.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:23 am 
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Yup, congrats FS!

This is a silly party game, but I really like how they turn the move into something different entirely, living cartoon style.



Should be awesome software moving forward. Personally, I'm waiting for the kinect to hit, and the inevitable price war for Christmas. The move looks superior to the kinect in response rate quality of control.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:35 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Darkroland wrote:
Still a gimmick, just like 3-D.


3D isn't a gimmick. Anyone here besides me with a 3D setup that can attest to how awesome it is? The glasses may be a gimmick, and adoption rates may take a while, but I can say this about 3D: it's gotten me playing my PS3 again. It's also gotten me excited for exclusives I never would have picked up otherwise (I'm looking at you, Killzone).

Likewise, everyone that has used the Move is impressed with the hardware and accuracy. The hurdle with making it popular, though, is going to be in the software. Software that is so far lackluster.

I think the 3D thing is definitely a gimmick, though it ultimately boils down to personal preference. Some like it, some don't. It's still a gimmick. They're only doing it because it's hard to make a crystal clear picture clearer. Even if they can make it clearer than 1080p, it's not going to be that noticeable. They need a gimmick to help sell new product. Here's how you know it's a gimmick. Compare it do HD. Everyone wanted HD. Eventually everyone got it. Not everyone wants 3D. Think how long it took for people to convert to HD. I don't think it's going to ever catch on fully. There's going to be a portion of the market with 3D TVs, while the rest have normal ones.

Personally, I get a headache from watching 3D stuff. I refuse to even go to a movie at the theater if it's in 3D.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:05 pm 
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3D has this little massive drawback called Glasses. It's going to be hard for it to ever become the next big thing due to the sheer number of people with bad eyesight.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:26 am 
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Lenas wrote:
Likewise, everyone that has used the Move is impressed with the hardware and accuracy. The hurdle with making it popular, though, is going to be in the software. Software that is so far lackluster.


Outside of a handful of titles, the Wii and motion controls have attested to this for awhile now. :(

Now that motion controls are cool on Sony hardware, we shall see if developers and buyers can make a better run of it. I know how awesome they can be, and how right/natural they can feel, but it remains to be seen if it will be recognized as a worthwhile economic endeavor.


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Sean wrote:
3D has this little massive drawback called Glasses. It's going to be hard for it to ever become the next big thing due to the sheer number of people with bad eyesight.

Prescription 3D glasses!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:42 pm 
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My question about the move is....is it right handed only? If it is, I and 10% of the population can't play it.

And I will not pay extra for 3D movies because I don't see the 3D effects.

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