The Glade 4.0

First off allowing underage children to smoke is not a crime - only selling to minors is.

That said, no a pregnant mother can do all of that (but should not). The issue is if it occurs at such a frequency to be considered negligent. Nowhere did I even allude to something as a total ban on behaviors which are rather normal in the course of adult life.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Can I suggest the same treatment to those I don't like in regards to their normal and natural environment? For example could I morally argue that we should disturb the natural course of events and forcibly remove this atmosphere from you and see if you survive?

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I'd rather sexual mechanics be taught in the home but I'm fairly with you on the rest of this.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

WRONG.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,276178,00.html



This position is not logically consistent with your position on abortion. A parent who is found to give their children pot, or even cigarrettes, or even a steady diet of potato chips, is going to be charged with a crime that will vary from state to state and have their child taken away from them. If you believe the pregnant woman has the same obligation to an unborn fetus that a parent has to a child, then you need to apply the same restrictions to both.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

No. That's not what I am arguing.

You said a fetus is a distinct organism from the mother. Therefore, it should be able to be removed from the mother and survive. If it cannot, it is not a distinct organism.

So which is it?

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Holy shitsnacks!

Not at all. She needs to just be given food and taken care of...you know, kind of what what a woman needs to do when it's still inside her..non of which seem to be very heroic.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

I would, too. However, since so many parents neglect going into this much detail, thinking that the less they tell their children, the less likely they are to have sex, it's not really going to happen.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

And that is why they will win. Amusingly in US politics the Democrats should be the most anti abortion group out there, as they are loosing their future voters.

As for those who view fetus's as parasites, can we take it one step further and view the very disabled, criminal, non self sustaining elderly as parasites on the body of society?

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

Clearly humans should be laying eggs instead of doing internal development.

Damn you mammalian evolutionary path!

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The wonderful irony here is that unless you support social security, public health care, welfare, and numerous other social programs required for some of these people to survive, that is exactly how you view those people.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

What about abortion in the case of ovagenesis, Elmo?

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D'oh, sorry had two threads open and got corn-fused.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Then we'd just be debating whether or not it should be a crime to leave the eggs unincubated, or eat an omelette.

I was wondering if someone was going to dunk that.

that is why I bring it up, I am amused as people who support one and not the other. I normally stay out of the abortion threads mostly due to this reason.

My views on abortion are contradictory and probably illogical, perhaps sociopath, so I mostly stay to the side and snark.

I believe, as Elm does, that abortion is murder, the problem is I do not like most people and that what makes less of them, especially the poor who tend to have abortions, is a better thing.

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

You and I would get along just fine.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Coming up after the break, the abortion debate rages on: Should you eat your unborn young scrambled, or sunny side up? Stay tuned!

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I heard one consistent argument that was pro-life, anti disabled people. A child has the potential to grow into a productive citizen. Those who do not have this potential should not be given support.

It was pretty sick IMO.

As I have skipped most of the abortion threads here, I am unsure of your position, so bear with me a moment if I ask for a repeat (probably in a biased and leading way) You are pro abortion and the cutting of the "safety net", to borrow the term for all the programs that support those that can not?


Most of my anger as society is now coming from my sister who is going for her masters in social work, from learning about the defectives she tries to help. I lake any better term from these people who seem only to exist to reproduce and drain resources of others with no production or positive contribution themselves, I am halfway to being a eugenicists and wanting them sterilized. (the Libertarian in me would rather they just be left to their own success or failure in a more organic Darwinian perspective)

As for getting along, who knows until you actually meet some one in person. What part of Canada do you live in? My wife has friends in Toronto and Vancouver and wants to go visit them, so perhaps one day we can talk in person.

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

Nah at least that way someone else who can't lay eggs would be able and willing to take care of it. Clearly we need to invent embryonic extraction and an artificial womb. That would solve the debate.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Um, no. The design of these programs was not to be survival tools, but a helping hand when a rough patch was hit, or in the case of social security- benefits to a widow. It's not a retirement plan. Welfare was supposed to be temp assistance, not a lifestyle for generations.



I agree, I want consistancy in laws. If a guy kills a 6month pregnant chick, he shouldn't get slapped with double homicide- yet it's happened. But if we are saying that at 6month and 1 day it's a human being, then why don't we currently charge unhealthy moms, or pregnant women who engage in risky behaviors such as smoking drinking etc with at least child endangerment?

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

I am "pro-choice." Personally, I'm anti-abortion. I am in favor of severely cutting/curtailing much of the "safety net." I think there's a place for some of it (not out of altruism, but because it's good for the economy and therefore helps everyone equally -- like Unemployment Insurance), but I think in general we give far too many handouts to unproductive parts of society.



North of Toronto a fair ways. Noplace anybody ever goes on vacation...

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

A fetus doesn't share DNA, it inherited DNA. It doesn't continue to receive DNA from the mother. The embryo synthesizes its own DNA. I don't really understand what bearing this has on the argument anyway though.

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The Dude abides.

Definately scrambled.