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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:21 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
While that may be true overall, I don't know, there has never been an altar boy molested by a straight priest.


This is hard to judge in the Catholic church, as priests are supposed to be celebate, but I suspect most of the priests/reverends who have abused boys in protestant churches have been straight, and even married.


If a male is attracted to males, he is not straight.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:22 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
According to the APA, attraction to children is a third sexual orientation that is completely separate from an attraction to men or women. Gay and straight is totally irrelevant when talking about a pedophile. They are attracted to children.


Who is the APA and why do I care about their opinion?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:22 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
According to the APA, attraction to children is a third sexual orientation that is completely separate from an attraction to men or women. Gay and straight is totally irrelevant when talking about a pedophile. They are attracted to children.


I've heard that too... but not sure I buy it. If I had to molest someone, it certainly wouldn't be a male.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:24 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
If a male is attracted to males, he is not straight.


You're a bit confused. Pedophilia has nothing to do with one's sexual orientation otherwise, and the sex of the child being abused also has nothing to do with one's sexual orientation.

As Corolinth pointed out, attraction to children is often considered it's own sexual orientation, but even if we use that, most pedophiles would then be marginally "bisexual," as they still have adult women as their primary sexual partners.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:25 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
If a male is attracted to males, he is not straight.


You're a bit confused. Pedophilia has nothing to do with one's sexual orientation otherwise, and the sex of the child being abused also has nothing to do with one's sexual orientation.

As Corolinth pointed out, attraction to children is often considered it's own sexual orientation, but even if we use that, most pedophiles would then be marginally "bisexual," as they still have adult women as their primary sexual partners.


But I bet that female CP is more prevalent than male.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:25 pm 
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It's actually rather funny to watch you guys discussing pedophilia when the issue is abuse of authority. But, of course, gay non-comms (edit, and officers) would never tell pretty-boy private that things would go a lot smoother for him if he were a bit more cooperative. That will never happen, just like catholic priests never abused their authority, either.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:39 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
If a male is attracted to males, he is not straight.


You're a bit confused. Pedophilia has nothing to do with one's sexual orientation otherwise, and the sex of the child being abused also has nothing to do with one's sexual orientation.

As Corolinth pointed out, attraction to children is often considered it's own sexual orientation, but even if we use that, most pedophiles would then be marginally "bisexual," as they still have adult women as their primary sexual partners.


I'm not confused at all. I've heard that argument before. It's appears to be nothing more than a segment of the community distancing itself from another.

Again,

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Who is the APA and why do I care about their opinion?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:57 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
If a male is attracted to males, he is not straight.



You state that merely being attracted to the same gender means you are not straight.
By that logic, merely being attracted to the opposite gender means you are not gay.

Therefore, almost no pedophiles are gay.

Of course, those first two statements are contradictory. It's either more complex than you're willing to admit, or you're an idiot.

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Last edited by Talya on Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:08 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Only a fag would say that.


You're such a wanker.


Oh yeah, I almost forgot. The last time I called something (not someone) gay on the Glade, I nearly got banned.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:26 pm 
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Is this the same APA who classified homosexuality as a mental illness until 1973? I'm just saying...

It's interesting because what the APA is saying is quite contradictory with what pedophiles themselves say. Of course, you probably shouldn't take that at face value, either. What I'd really like to know is what the actual behavior looks like. I don't know where you'd find statistics on this kind of thing, but if in reality most sex offenders with child victims demonstrate a preference towards one gender or the other, that would seem to dispute the APA's stance rather empirically. I don't know where you would get numbers on that.

Lex Luthor wrote:
But I bet that female CP is more prevalent than male.

This is also an interesting point, but as far as the illegal stuff goes, I'm not sure how you'd get meaningful statistics. Maybe the FBI, etc. compile statistics on these things? On the legal or quasi-legal side of things, it would probably not be too hard to look at the sales revenues of shotacon vs. lolicon in Japan, for instance. Granted, it's Japan, but still. I bet someone has even done studies into the gender of the buyers, too. I think it even tends to be further broken down into gay vs. straight, as well. But sales figures aside, just the existence of distinct genres and even sub-genres would imply that it's little more complicated than just "I have thing for kids".

Talya wrote:
You seem to be implying that merely being attracted to the same gender makes one gay.
By that logic, merely being attracted to the opposite gender also makes you straight.

It doesn't? I mean, action as well as attraction is meaningful, but if "I'm attracted to other men" doesn't make you at least a little bit gay, then the terms are rather meaningless, aren't they?

Talya wrote:
Therefore, the vast majority of pedophiles are straight.

I wouldn't doubt it. The vast majority of people are (mostly) straight.

Talya wrote:
It's either more complex than you're willing to admit, or you're an idiot.

It's funny that you should say that, because your apparent agreement with the APA strikes me as being overly simplified, especially coming from you. I don't mean anything hostile by that -- I'm just referring to your view that there is no "Aristotelian" sexuality. That is, "gay" and "straight" are part of a continuum. Generally speaking, I think I agree with that assessment. But there doesn't really seem to be any particular justification for removing pedophilia to some kind of weird monopole separate from the rest of human sexuality other than "that's gross. Don't let it touch me."

Again, I haven't seen any statistics on the matter -- maybe pedophiles really don't exhibit gender preferences like the rest of us, but on face value, it seems odd to me that they wouldn't.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:35 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
It's funny that you should say that, because your apparent agreement with the APA strikes me as being overly simplified, especially coming from you. I don't mean anything hostile by that -- I'm just referring to your view that there is no "Aristotelian" sexuality. That is, "gay" and "straight" are part of a continuum. Generally speaking, I think I agree with that assessment. But there doesn't really seem to be any particular justification for removing pedophilia to some kind of weird monopole separate from the rest of human sexuality other than "that's gross. Don't let it touch me."

Again, I haven't seen any statistics on the matter -- maybe pedophiles really don't exhibit gender preferences like the rest of us, but on face value, it seems odd to me that they wouldn't.



I don't really agree with the APA in calling it an orientation (check my wording, above). In fact, I don't think pedophilia is about sex at all, in most cases. Like rape, it's usually about power. The pedophile is an insecure person with serious other issues and is satisfying those issues by the power he can hold over a child. That said, I'm sure there are people actually sexually attracted to children due to an age preference--there are actually people out there who go for geriatrics.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:42 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
But I bet that female CP is more prevalent than male.

This is also an interesting point, but as far as the illegal stuff goes, I'm not sure how you'd get meaningful statistics.


I don't have statistics, but media of underage males is much more rare on the Internet, simply from lack of demand.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:56 pm 
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I bet it wouldn't be too hard to write a script that crawls all the *chans and counts posts or images in the various sections. I don't think I really want to, though.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:59 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
If a male is attracted to males, he is not straight.



You state that merely being attracted to the same gender means you are not straight.
By that logic, merely being attracted to the opposite gender means you are not gay.

Therefore, almost no pedophiles are gay.

Of course, those first two statements are contradictory. It's either more complex than you're willing to admit, or you're an idiot.


You're either straight, or your not. There are varying degrees of "bent", but there is only one straight.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:07 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
You're either straight, or your not. There are varying degrees of "bent", but there is only one straight.



Bullshit. You have no concept of sexuality, and are merely trying to create an artificial division between what you in your warped fashion see as good and normal, and everything else.

As a general rule, a straight person is someone primarily attracted to the opposite sex, while a gay person is someone who is primarily attracted to the same sex.

NOBODY is 100% straight. Nobody is 100% gay. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves.

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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
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Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:15 pm 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:40 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:

That link reaffirms Arathain's assertion.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:30 pm 
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Except for the part where it doesn't. But anyway, Corolinth never said it was a refutation of Arathain's comment in the first place.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:58 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Talya wrote:
The service academies still generally require the nomination of a congressman to get in. That doesn't rule out the poor, but it makes it exceedingly easy for the wealthy. There's still an old boy's club at work.


Not really. The tests you have to pass in order to qualify for the Academy to even compete for the nomination are exceedingly difficult and competitive, to say nothing of the standards of academics and extracirricular activity participation. More to the point, the academies themselves are pretty **** tough your first year; you don't just coast through by any means.

I tried to get into the Naval Academy and went through the entire process.


My nephew went through the process and got into the USAF Academy in Colorado. He stayed with it for two years, left because he was too tall to be considered for jet fighter training. Came back to California and finished up at a local college, third generation to get a degree from CSU San Jose, though when my dad went it was just San Jose State.

Yes, it was a tough grind to get all the academics and extra curricular activity in, but he was bright enough to ace all his classes and enjoyed a lot of the extra curricular stuff. He was a cross country track star in high school and was among the small group every year that are amused by the USAF staff trying to run them ragged. He and about a half dozen other track jocks just kept pace at the lead and never had to do the extra duty of the losers. His congressman nominate him for the academy and my sister found out their congressman enjoyed having someone to nominate that had gotten the checklist, filled in every box, and nobody had to gussy it up to make it look impressive.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:54 am 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
I am sure now Berkly, Yale, and other Liberal colleges and universities will stop blocking ROTC recruiters.....


I don't know about Berkeley (that's a different kettle of fish), but Harvard, Yale and Columbia are on board.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:21 am 
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Stathol wrote:
Except for the part where it doesn't. But anyway, Corolinth never said it was a refutation of Arathain's comment in the first place.
Sure it does.

Coro never wrote anything, just posted a link. I figured it was worth the effort to point out.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:05 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Talya wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Only a fag would say that.


You're such a wanker.


Oh yeah, I almost forgot. The last time I called something (not someone) gay on the Glade, I nearly got banned.


That's because you're a bleedin' tosser.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:40 am 
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Taskiss wrote:
Sure it does.

In the first place, Kinsey didn't use the terms "straight" or "gay", let alone "straight" and "bent". Nor is there any indication that he considered homosexuality to be a distortion or twisting of heterosexuality. So Arathain's argumentum ad geometria isn't going to gain any traction with any of Kinsey's theories. Fundamentally, it's a fallacy to substitute "straight" and "bent" for "heterosexual" and "homosexual" (as used by Kinsey) because they don't bear the same relationship.

But even supposing that you (incorrectly) exchange these terms for "heterosexual" and "homosexual", it still wouldn't support his argument. Case in point:

Code:
Rating   Description
0   Exclusively straight
1   Predominantly straight, only incidentally bent
2   Predominantly straight, but more than incidentally bent
3   Equally straight and bent.
4   Predominantly bent, but more than incidentally straight
5   Predominantly bent, only incidentally straight
6   Exclusively bent
X   Insubstantial, Non-Euclidean


This is precisely the opposite of what Arathain proposed. Not only is there a category which is "equally straight and bent", but even those categories which are more than 45 degrees (so to speak) still bear the "straight" designation as a secondary qualifier.

Even passing familiarity with Kinsey's work and writing should be sufficient to know that it was largely a refutation of exactly that sort of discrete, "Aristotelean" ("You're either straight, or your [sic] not") analysis of human sexuality. Of course Kinsey's theory may be either right or wrong (or more or less useful in a positivist perspective). Perhaps Arathain's theory is the correct one and Kinsey was wrong. However, the two theories are quite incompatible, and it really strains credibility to suggest that Kinsey somehow secretly supported absolutes in human sexuality.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:24 pm 
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The real issue here is that adult heterosexual males have a hard time coming to terms with the ultimate conclusion of Kinsey's experiments. The fact that practically no human beings are a 0 or a 6 means that they are at least incidentally homosexual. That's a hard pill to swallow when you believe that teh gayz0rz is nast-E.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:35 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
You're either straight, or your not. There are varying degrees of "bent", but there is only one straight.


As a general rule, a straight person is someone primarily exclusively attracted to the opposite sex, while a gay person is someone who is primarilyattracted to the same sex.


Fixed it for you.


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