The Glade 4.0

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

The post directly above your own here

http://www.gladerebooted.org/viewtopic. ... 04#p124604

As to your assertion, no it really wouldn't require any conspiracy at all.

Yup, I didn't make the connection that you were referencing an article from five days ago in a different thread. Unsurprisingly, I didn't realize that article was what you were basing your statement on; that article doesn't even come close to making the case that wages have been stagnant for 95 years. Sure, make a chart that shows income in $100,000 increments and the average wage increases don't look that all impressive (we're still on the bottom tier of wages after 93 years!!!!11!!one), but if you look at what my simple arithmetic showed, your statement is demonstrably false.

Sorry, I really cant see the merits in further discussing this when the underlying proposition has no factual basis.

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

The link that says your calculation didn't work?

Which assertion would that be?

Sigh. Please, show my ignorant *** how you arrived at your destination.

The underlying proposition is that wages have been stagnant for 95 years.
The conspiracy would be that all the non-union employers have conspired to keep wages at the level they were in 1915, despite increases in production etc. It's not as if anyone has ever looked at corporate reports that show employee expenses right there alongside overall expenses and revenue...

In 1988, the income of an average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Fast forward 20 years, and not much had changed: The average income was still just $33,000 in 2008, according to IRS data.

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

I apologize, I reread the article and am mistaken. Wages have not been stagnant for 95 years. They have been stagnant since 1988.



Big misstatement on my part and I do apologize for it. That said the same premise I presented in my arguments hold true for a shorter timespan.

And food? Housing? Energy costs? It's nice that a middling lifestyle has become less of a leap over subsistence, but if subsistence has increased, it's still easier to be poor, Lex.

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

Lex,

You are correct in terms of the graph. However, "poverty" is not an obvious term, but is instead defined. So, adjusting the "poverty level" affects the rates. If I drop the poverty level from $20k to $15k, then the poverty rate drops, and your graph would show a reduction.

It doesn't mean people are better off.

Quick observation: the decline in poverty from the mid-90s and the upswing beginning in 2000 appear to match up quite nicely with the rise and fall of the tech bubble, with the accelerated increase coinciding with the housing bubble bursting.

Moral of the story: Easy come, easy go.

The tech bubble hasn't fallen.

Then show your sources.

I apologize, I reread the article and am mistaken. Wages have not been stagnant for 95 years. They have been stagnant since 1988.



Big misstatement on my part and I do apologize for it. That said the same premise I presented in my arguments hold true for a shorter timespan.

Thank you for your candor, but the quote still doesn't back up your (revised) statement. Taken at face value, the line "the income of an average American taxpayer" has too many variables to show that wages have been "stagnant". How does one arrive at "the average american taxpayer"? Do they take all people who file tax returns and average them? Do they only take full time workers who file a tax return and average them? Do they only use data from those who end up paying taxes after they file a return? The most reasonable (to me) is that they take the information from all tax returns and average them. This wouldn't give a picture of what the average wage is, it would give a picture of what the average of all wage earners (full time, part time, summer job...) would be.
Further, taking two data points on a continuum and saying that wages have been stagnant for 20+ years is really poor analysis. For example, did wages remain the same in the early 2000's as they were prior, or are now?

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but what you are using to back up your statement isn't sufficient for the task. Even looking at the graph presented in the article you're quoting shows fluctuations in income; taking into account a $100,000 spread in that narrow of a tier (1/4" ?), visible fluctuations show that the income level is not stagnant.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, "household median income" is defined as "the amount which divides the income distribution into two equal groups, half having income above that amount, and half having income below that amount."

Year No. of Households Nominal $ Inflation Adjusted $
2009 117,538,000 $49,777 $49,777
2008 117,181,000 $50,303 $50,303
2007 116,783,000 $50,233 $52,163
2006 116,011,000 $48,201 $51,473
2005 114,384,000 $46,326 $51,093
2004 113,343,000 $44,334 $50,535
2003 112,000,000 $43,318 $50,711
2002 111,278,000 $42,409 $50,756
2001 109,297,000 $42,228 $51,356
2000 108,209,000 $41,990 $52,500
1999 106,434,000 $40,696 $52,587
1998 103,874,000 $38,885 $51,295
1997 102,528,000 $37,005 $49,497
1996 101,018,000 $35,492 $48,499
1995 99,627,000 $34,076 $47,803
1994 98,990,000 $32,264 $46,351
1993 97,107,000 $31,241 $45,839
1992 96,426,000 $30,636 $46,063
1991 95,669,000 $30,126 $46,445
1990 94,312,000 $29,943 $47,818
1989 93,347,000 $28,906 $48,463
1988 92,830,000 $27,225 $47,614
1987 91,124,000 $26,061 $47,251
1986 89,479,000 $24,897 $46,665
1985 88,458,000 $23,618 $45,069
1984 86,789,000 $22,415 $44,242
1983 85,407,000 $20,885 $42,910
1982 83,918,000 $20,171 $43,212
1981 83,527,000 $19,074 $43,328
1980 82,368,000 $17,710 $44,059
1979 80,776,000 $16,461 $45,498
1978 77,330,000 $15,064 $45,625
1977 76,030,000 $13,572 $43,925
1976 74,142,000 $12,686 $43,649
1975 72,867,000 $11,800 $42,936

The U.S. Census Bureau currently publishes household median income and household mean income data from 1975 to 2008.

The U.S. Census Bureau includes the information in "current dollars" (not adjusted for inflation) and "2008 dollars" (adjusted for inflation).

It's interesting to look at the trend of median household income in the United States from 1975 until now.

From 1975 to 2008, you have had multiple wars, multiple recessions, multiple unemployment rate spikes of over 10%, the greatest economic boom in the history of the United States, the greatest real estate boom in the history of the United States, stagflation, multiple presidents, etc. The list goes on and on.

It's interesting to look at, between 1975 and 2008, how the median household income in the United States has fluctuated.

In 1975, the inflation-adjusted median household income in the United States was $42,936.

In 2008, the inflation-adjusted median household income in the United States was $50,303.

That means that, from 1975 until 2008, the median household income in the United States has increased 17%.

When you factor in the 2009 numbers, the percentage is even smaller.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that recessions result in lower median household incomes.

Median household income in the United States dropped in 1979, and continued to trend lower until 1984.

From there, median household income slowly trended higher, only to take a breather in the early '90s (Gulf War, recession).

After that, median household income surged higher, peaking at $52,587 in 1999 (the height of the dot com bubble).

When the dot com bubble popped, median household income numbers dropped in the United States. Couple that with 9/11 and the recession that followed, and median household income numbers dropped for five years straight (2000 to 2004).

In 2007, median household income surged to $52,163 before dropping off a cliff in 2008.

So what can we take from this data? A few things, including:

-median household income numbers are about the same now as they were in 1997

-median household income numbers will very likely continue to trend lower over the next 3-4 years, even though the "Great Recession" has technically come to an end

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

Is it like how the Onion solved obesity, by reclassifying obese as over 400?

Meh, I'm technically obese with a 35" waist...

It's even worse. I'm on the border of obese with a 31" to 32" waist. Keep in mind this is after I lost 60 pounds. BMI sucks for determining obesity rates. It's moderately good if you want a rough idea where your ideal weight should be.

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin