The Glade 4.0

Salaried and hourly are vastly different cases, Aizle.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Yes and no.

Certainly the laws around them are different. There are also a LOT of salaried jobs out there that frankly should not be, based on the laws regarding regarding salary vs. hourly positions. Yet those laws are never really policed unless there is gross abuse where the employees actually sue the company.

But really it comes down to expectations and salary negotiations. I took that particular job with the understanding that a 45 hour work week was expected. I found it telling that the department I worked in wasn't in sync with HR on expectations. And in addition, the claimed expectations of a 45 hour work week were bogus. That wasn't the expectation, the expectation was something much higher than that. Yet the company (or at least this department/manager) was not actually truthful or honest about their expectations.

It should be noted that I have no problem with working long hours, provided there is a reason. During the holiday season I would regularly work 80-90 hour weeks because there was just that much **** coming through the warehouse that needed to be dealt with. But chastising me for not putting in more than the expected hours, when we weren't excessively busy, nothing was late and there are no emergencies is just trying to get something for nothing.

At the core, the issue is the same as what also happens in hourly situations.

Aizle:

And that has nothing to do with the question I asked.

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Workers, just like any oher good, is subject to supply and demand. Unions keep wages artifically high, reducing the number of available jobs, because companies may not be able afford to hire as many people as they could if wages were allowed to be valued normally. Getting rid of unions would be a good step towards improving unemployment.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

This isn't an argument I'd expect you to make. Would you be willing to curb constitutional free association rights to keep labor costs low?????

Unions also have done vast good too. Do you have benefits? A safe workplace? Thank unions.

Unions have denied businesses and tax payers the right of free-association by advocating law which restricts the rights of those individuals to terminate association with unions.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

There a lot of myths about the value of unions. Unions serve themselves at the expense of every consumer.

I have to go, but I'll try to remember to come back later. (on vacation)

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

I don't favor mandatory union memberships/dues etc. I think you should be able to exclude yourself from unions completely if you wish but you shouldn't get any of the benefits of union membership either. You should have to negotiate your own salary, you shouldn't be able to have a union steward defend you in an discipline case, etc.

Hows that union negotiated vacation going Wwen?

So you also defend an employers rights of free association?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Businesses lobby all the time to get laws passed to their benefit. Why should unions be any different?

These "lobbying efforts" are in contravention of the right of free association, the very right that the unions use to justify their existence.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Not in a union. So, that clever comeback is less so.

Most people aren't anyway. Thankfully they aren't as widespread in the US as in some other countries. Non-wage Labor costs are so great in some countries, like Germany, that that they out bid wages the unions would ask, just so they can keep the unions out of their business. The bureaucracy can be so prohibitively expensive. These costs can and do push jobs to other countries where labor is cheaper.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Explain your reasoning please.

But in order to compete with union jobs other employers must offer vacation to be competitive. You can't just claim that the benefits packages enjoyed in non-union environments are free of union influence.

When an employer is required, by law, to limit the pay of non-union employees to be no higher than the union negotiated rate, or the employee is required, by law, to have union dues deducted from his paycheck whether he's a member or not, the free association of the non-union employee and the employer has been compromised in order to protect the union.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

This ^ + being forced to join a union if you desire being employed. Thanks for saving me all that typing Kaffis.

(See how that works, Theri? Someone asks you your reasons for a statement and you give them to them.)

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Even better is when the union pressures you to join and when you tell them that you are not interested you suddenly start getting into disciplinary issues that did not exist prior to the meeting with the union rep.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Well, yes, it's just PR bullshit. By the same token, corporations generally don't admit that their only purpose is to make money, more advertising dollars get spent trying to convince you that the company cares about you as a person rather than your wallet than on anything else.

In a lot of cases, the unions are essentially voting themselves money from the public coffers. The question is, what do you want to do about it? We live in a republic, people are generally allowed to do this as long as constitutionality is upheld. Union members have the right to not perform work (strike) if they want. They have the right to vote for the politicians they want. They have the right to hire lobbyists if they want, just like anyone else. You can't take any of these rights away from pro-union people specifically without being a major hypocrite.

a) except that you didn't. Someone else did.
b) You don't ask me to explain my logic, you ask me to for examples-- (something you rarely do yourself) Since such requires far far more effort (actually going back and finding links to exact posts, quotes etc, the process is FAR FAR more time consuming and usually far more effort than I want to put in to satsify your need (and it tends to turn everything into a meta argument about the way individuals argue instead of the actual issue at hand, sometimes devolving into an argument about individuals. )

I can't believe you actually said that. Don't be such a ponce and maybe you'll actually gain some respect. He gave two of the three reasons I said what I said; I gave the third.




I give examples when asked. Please back up your accusations, otherwise be seen for a liar.

Since you seem to be unable to comprehend what I said the first two times, let me quote them here:


and



It seem you have the same problem others deal with: not actually reading what is actually written. Only through repetition do those type of people finally understand what is actually being said. Does that help, Theri?

Why don't you just admit that you've got no real reasons for your statements, you just "feel" that way. I think at this point it's probably the reasonable thing to do, rather than continuing to go round and round with excuse after excuse and dodge after dodge.

It also helps to make a statement following the receipt of such clarifications when you ask for them, usually involving acknowledging the differences or similarities in your own argument/opinion. It's how adults converse, and shows you understand what arguments are being made.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Vindi, who did you vote for in 2008? In 2010?

And beyond that Mods said to drop it so I did. you're the one bringing this up again "dic"

Beyond what? That's just **** sad. Dodge dodge spin spin. You aren't even going to know which way you intended to go soon, if you're not there already.
Nephyr suggested "taking a breather for a day or so" because of the rather heated discussion surrounding your sexual proclivities (they didn't gain you the admiration you desired when you paraded them about for all to see, repeatedly, did they?), not because you were asked for how you reached a conclusion.

You've studiously avoided dealing with Midgen asking "right of what?" As well as with ds, and myself, directly questioning your thought process on labeling people, going so far as to perform a a mincing little hat dance leading to the grand finale of a full on mod shield. You're truly a wonder to behold. Then you try to accuse me of not providing examples when asked, an accusation for which you...have no examples. Truly top notch hypocrisy. /clap

Nearly six days later, just sack up, and admit you pass judgement on people because you "feel" that way about them.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

After watching you bash the Obama administration (and not with measured criticism, but with outright vitriol), the Democratic party, unions any policies for a stronger Federal government, reject most of Congress's power to enact laws based on the liberal reading of the commerce clause, any commentator on the left, affirmative action, any poster who takes a position on the left (to the point of making snide comments from thread to thread following them) over and over again, Its pretty easy to see where your leanings are.

In short, you're not a liberal. You're not even moderate. By the criteria I'm using (see above) you're on the right.


I'm NOT going to waste my time reading up your past posts (they're nauseating enough the first time around) Just to demonstrate to you how I came to the conclusion I did.

You don't like the shoe? It fits pretty well. I asked you what proof you would accept, you can't answer it because nothing I say will actually prove anything to you so this is just a pointless exercise in me wasting my time for you.


I'm sorry I thought Midgen's question didn't particularly require an answer.
"Right of center" seems the glib response. On the political right --commonly defined as siding more with the stated positions of the Republican Party in the US. I wasn't aware I had to define terms that are in common usage but then again since you guys like to chose what words mean (and then ***** and moan when people show you dictionary definitons that directly contradict the argument you're trying to make saying that that dictionaries don't count or we're using the wrong definition) The fact of the matter is, if I use the word BLAH in one way and state that something is BLAH, then you want to start screaming "NO! ITS NOT BLAH!!!!" at the top of your lungs and then use an alternate defintion. Guess what, in this example I'm the one who used it, I used the word correctly so in the context, I am quite correct and you're wrong, because it was MY SENTENCE TO BEGIN WITH. Getting back to where this all started, by the criteria i listed above, all the people mentioned are indeed on the right.

you are a **** clown dude. Seriously, a complete **** clown.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut