The Glade 4.0

Right, none of us know what it's like to be in that situation. It's like none of us have ever been around dogs before. Just like none of us know what it's like to have to keep order in a school classroom, even though a large number of people on this board are former Boy Scout members.

That police officer wasn't in any situation that half of this board hasn't found themselves in before. He had a dog charging at him. It's not like dogs are strange and unusual beasts.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

You ever been attacked by a large dog while carrying a gun?

If you didn't use it, you've given up your best chance at protecting yourself and allowed an animal to establish a dangerous behavior pattern.

There's a reason many states only give a dog "one free bite".

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In time, this too shall pass.

Can't agree with the "out of nowhere" and the "being attacked". Yes I've been charged by a what you consider a "large" dog (American Pit Bull Terrier) while carrying. I held it down by its neck until it's owner claimed it.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

There are three reasons, actually - (1) many people overestimate the danger dogs pose, (2) many people undervalue the life of a dog, and (3):

I suppose to we need to define small, medium, and large dogs ...

Cause, honestly, Moose is the only "large" dog I own, and he's a bit of an aberration

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Calling Arafys an 'aberration' seems unnecessarily hurtful.

Yup, Khross, my dog's 85-90 pounds and he's medium. In my estimation, my brother's Newfoundlands are large.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Well, complete aside and a funny story ...

So, I acquired from Plastic Bag On the Interstate Dog Vendors (that is, I witnessed him getting chucked from the window of a moving vehicle onto the shoulder) this tiny (as in maybe 4 lbs) Pit Bull Terrier puppy. And he was obviously the runt of his litter. So I took him to the vet and never really go around to finding him another home.

As for being an aberration, he weighs 133 lbs and is not obese.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Coro:

Though I have been around dogs and many here also have been around dogs, I would like to know how many have actually had a large dog charging at them with intent to harm.

I don't believe that you think that just because someone has been around dogs necessarily knows what to do if they were being attacked. That is truly a stupid statement. Kindergartners and First graders have been around their family dogs, surely they would know how to handle an attacking pitbull that likely weighs twice their own weight, right?

Back in high school, I was walking to the school bus stop. I was walking on the sidewalk in front of a neighbor's house. Their little annoying yap-dog came running out to me growling and snarling as those annoying type of dogs are wont to do. Though I was not fearful for my life, I faced him to make sure he wasn't going to bite me. He seemed to calm down and I turned and continued walking. No sooner than I turned my back, the little bastard bit me on my leg.

Dogs are animals. You can't reason with an attacking dog, especially one that isn't yours. Are we advocating that officers turn their backs and run/retreat from attacking dogs now? Perhaps they should be carrying some other dog deterrant so the dog did not need to be shot. But asking anyone to turn from an attacking dog is just plain stupid.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Yeah, that's why I call him Moose. He's a bit of a challenge sometimes, but that's mostly a factor of his size. And because he's too big for his breed, he has hip and knee problems. Still, I love the Moose and take good care of him. His favorite day of the week is Saturday, as evidenced by the fact that if I sleep in, he will drag the stone cart from the shed and into the kitchen.

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As I said before, Foamy, no one is advocating the officer run. Whether the dog was attacking is a matter of opinion, and I believe the body language of that dog doesn't show that it was.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I take it you consider yourself somewhat experienced with dogs, seeing's how you can read their body language...

How would you rate yourself? More experienced than average?

Now, how experienced do you KNOW that particular cop is?

You expect too much, sir. I'd not even consider the average person capable of reading a dog's body language well enough to ascertain their intent to attack or not.

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In time, this too shall pass.

I wasn't commenting on the officer's level of experience. My comment is directed towards those that repeatedly make the claim that the dog was "attacking". They are making claims that aren't backed up by what is contained in the video.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

One might imply from the video that if the officer felt the need to ready, then draw and fire his weapon, that there was indeed an element of danger.

I don't imagine the dog was running up to him to give him a big, wet, sloppy kiss.

Nothing about intent, whether on the part of the officer, the homeowner, or the dog can clearly be surmised from the video and it is ridiculous that anyone tries to do so.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Your statements indicate to me you are above average in your experience with dogs.

You're not qualified to speak to what the average person would think, were the average person put in that position. You can't "un-know" what you know and it absolutely biases your opinion.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Don't forget, he was retreating, too. His actions weren't aggressive, he was backing away from the animal.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Why not? You can't possibly know that he wasn't. I wouldn't consider it abnormal behavior for a dog to run out greet a visitor, with no other intention than to get some attention and see what kind of treats they might have in their pockets...

Taskiss & Foamy - Let's say the dog was actually attacking. Given that assumption, what level of danger do you guys think such an attack would likely pose to the cop? Would his life likely be at risk? Would a serious, major-trauma mauling be probable? Was the likely outcome a couple of bites requiring a few stitches and a tetanus shot? And so on. The likely outcome of the attack, if one were to occur, is a crucial point for me.

*Edit: Rephrasing to reflect Vind's comment (which I agree with) that "mortal danger" is too high a bar.

Foamy, The only intent that can be absolutely surmised from the video is that the officer intended to shoot the dog. I maintain that the dog wasn't attacking, merely charging, based on the dog's body language. Why others would make the assumption that the dog was attacking, I don't know.

Taskiss, I don't believe I've made any statements dealing with what other people (average or otherwise) "would think", have I? My statements are directed at those who "have stated" that the dog was attacking; I disagree.

RD, I don't believe the officer should have to wait until he was in "mortal danger" to use lethal force, that's too high a bar.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

There is only one true way to define a large/medium/small dog and it is relative to the person obviously.

Is it's ****: Smaller than yours? About the same size? Bigger than yours?

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That's a bad metric. It makes my beagle a large dog, and that's using Screeling's poo as a baseline for comparison.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

The determination your argument supports is advocating that the level of force used was excessive. You don't need to make that argument yourself, that's not necessary.

Your argument is made using opinions shaped by an experience level greater than average. Supposing that the cop has even average experience, his ability to be as certain as your argument shows you to be is considerably questionable.

To argue that someone could tell the difference expects more than should be assumed the average person capable of, and weakens the argument that the force used was excessive.

If I, as an average person, think my life is at risk, using lethal force is not excessive.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Anyone in law enforcement for any appreciable amount of time will have a higher than average exposure to dog and in all likelihood guard/watch dogs.

I finally broke down and watched the video. I had been avoiding it because frankly I don't need to see a dog get shot.

What I see is an officer who immediately goes for his gun, doesn't appear to be taking any quick action to remove themselves from any potential danger and a behavior from the dog that is typical of a hyperactive dog, not an aggressive dog.

The cop over reacted IMHO.

I'd sure like to know what that opinion is based on...even if we knew how long the cop was on the force, I'd say that because the average US population density is 87.4 people per square mile, the average cop doesn't have all that much experience. Since Oklahoma has an average population density of 54.7 people per square mile, I'd put the cop in question at less than average experience.

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In time, this too shall pass.