The Glade 4.0

Yes, but that only took about a day and 1/2 to correct itself, as things normalized and information was collected on what actually happened.

And to stay on topic, my post speaks to Xequcal's disagreement with me over US debt and the bond market.

Additionally, I wish you'd all stop quoting Lex in this thread. I don't do stupid anymore.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

It could also be an over-correction, and maybe the market is undervalued. My point is that you can skew the numbers however you want to fit your perceptions. The fact is that Rynar would be complaining about the economy regardless of what the numbers are.

Yeah, I was just joking around. I think robo-trading is problematic, but with or without it, an S&P downgrade would cause the market to drop.

If Rynar lived from the year 1900 to 2011, he would be complaining the entire time about "socialism" and "inflation" and "the gold standard", even as the standards of life improve in every way. Automobiles, modern medicine, the Internet, flight, television, cinema, video games, food variety, smart phones, laptops, etc. Just imagine what's next. But all the negative nancies here think the apocalypse is right around the corner, that everything is going to get worse. You can cry about liberty as well, but that's equivalent to living alone in the forest with the squirrels.

You said that the US dollar was "worthless." That's obviously not true. Now, you could say the US dollar is decreasing in value, but that's incredibly obvious.

What's much scarier is everyone all over the world rushing to buy more precious metals, because that doesn't just mean the dollar is crashing, it means every currency is. (or they'd be buying it instead)

Ratings agencies and the Fed usually lag far behind real market forces.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

What currency has value, then, if the US dollar is worthless? The only countries without massive government deficits are the oil exporters.

I'm just letting this resonate for awhile.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Ooooh ooooh *raises hand* ooooh ooooh

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

And it's back up again, just like Monday never happened.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Well obviously. Although the bond market certainly hasn't recovered, which is the point of my posts in this thread. Do you need me to explain how the bond markets works to you?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Sure! Right after that explain what "moving the goal posts" means...

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In time, this too shall pass.

Dude, I'm not the one shifting the goal posts. I've been talking about debt quality the entire thread.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Your doom and gloom over the specific events of Monday have failed to make whatever impact you seemed to want them to make. The world didn't end, the market recovered it's losses in hours. You need to replace the crystal ball.



http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexch ... ent_debt_7

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In time, this too shall pass.

Even if the world got a lot better, Rynar would claim it's an economic bubble.

You have failed so epically at reading comprehension, and understanding of the topic being discussed, that it isn't even worth continuing the conversation with you that is what you have actually taken away from my posts in this thread.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

When are you going to learn that your "conversation" isn't worth continuing with anyone?

Except others like yourself that feel the end is nigh...

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In time, this too shall pass.

You might be the dumbest smart guy I've ever met. Frustratingly so.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Come on, man, you're better than this. He's addressing your points, staying on topic, and you're just declaring him "dumb" and having poor reading comprehension without explanation.

Fail.

Explain why his source is incorrect.

Ohhh economics:
China ditching more US bonds:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/it%E2% ... us-dollars

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

No, that article shows nothing. China says it need to reduce its levels of foreign reserves and the hacks that run that website automatically assume they'll be selling nothing but US Treasuries. Come on, if CNN pulled "reporting" like this out of their asses you'd be all over them for it.

15% of U.S. mortgages are currently in foreclosure.

27% of U.S. mortgages have negative equity.

Housing prices have reached 40 year lows when adjusted to 1958 dollars.

Housing prices continue to decline. Mainstream economists have started throwing around the "D-word" with regard to the house market, although it's following a fairly predictable pattern and isn't going to normalize any time soon.

By the end of the year, some of the outlying estimates have 60% of mortgages reaching the negative equity point. I'm more inclined to put that number in the 40% range, because it's going to take at least a decade for the housing market to actually bottom out, if it does.

There's a little over 600,000 acres of unfinished or abandoned residential development according to some conservative estimates; some of these developments have been idle since the Stagflation Recession of the 1970s.

Employment gains are nominal, most likely even fabricated because the current Department of Labor shifts goalposts faster than they put out reports. The safe estimate on discouraged workers (that is people who have stopped looking for work or who will never be employable again) is 16-18 million Americas between 18 and 50.

Real inflation is by all accounts in the double digits as food prices and energy costs continue to rise almost solely because of government imposed shifts in the pricing curves. In fact, the so-called volatile markets have been pushed so far away from their natural supply/demand relationships that it probably doesn't even make sense to study them anymore: they are not natural markets.

And, yet, we have people screaming up and down that people are Doom Sayers and Naysayers ...

But, I'll just repeat what I've been saying for the last six months.

1. The United States government has a vested interest in lying to you about the economy.

2. Agents of the United States government have a vested interest in lying to you about the economy.

3. The market manipulations, intrusions, and other financial fiascoes of the U.S. Government during the last part of the Bush Administration and all of the Obama Administration would be criminal if performed by any private citizen.

4. We're in a depression, and it's not getting better any time soon.

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Khross, what effect, if any, do you think it would have if a massive protest against the Fed and our monetary policy were to take place by having everyone burn $1? It would be symbolic of course and you'd never get everyone to do it but if the money pool shrank by ~$350M would policymakers respond?

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It would have 0 effect on our government's fiscal policy.

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They don't need physical currency in circulation Hopwin - most of the dollars out there now are virtual - created, and traded electronically.

If we were to End the Fed (protest in Philly this weekend!) it would jumpstart the collapse since most nations would assume we would default on our debt. It would also stop the situation from getting worse and start our recovery.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville