The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 4:51 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 102 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Hopwin wrote:
I assume the police fined them for that, so what is the issue?


The issue is that apparently it's ok to support people's rights when they are popular or convenient, not all the time.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:51 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Hopwin wrote:
People also have the right not to hear other people's garbage.


Ummm.... no. No they don't. Where the hell are you pulling this out of?

Quote:
Sad that you think minority rights supercede majority rights.


No. Rights supercede non-rights.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:12 pm 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
Aizle wrote:
I guess I can see that, and even agree with the mentality. I just think that specifically blocking in their cars, with the sole intent of illegally preventing them from getting somewhere is crossing a line.


Blocking their cars is not 100% preventing them from going. They could walk. It is inconveniencing them, but that is not illegal. It could even be considered a source of nonviolent protest even.

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5716
Khross wrote:
An armed society is a polite society.


Fear and politeness are too different things.

A polite society is voluntary. Also, the threat of violence in response to speech is not polite.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:31 pm 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Rynar wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
People also have the right not to hear other people's garbage.


Ummm.... no. No they don't. Where the hell are you pulling this out of?

So I have to listen to whatever ridiculous **** spews out of your mouth? Good to know. As an aside whose going to enforce that?

Edit: libertarian **** :p

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:36 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Hopwin wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
People also have the right not to hear other people's garbage.


Ummm.... no. No they don't. Where the hell are you pulling this out of?

So I have to listen to whatever ridiculous **** spews out of your mouth? Good to know.


You have the right to remove yourself. You don't have the right to silence another person or group of people because you don't like what they have to say. In fact, the purpose of the First Amendment is to prevent the exact sort of governmental attack on Free Speech you are advocating.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:42 pm 
Offline
Oberon's Playground
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 9449
Location: Your Dreams
Let's take a closer look at this, Rynar.


Say he chooses to remove himself. Say you choose to follow him, right to the edge of his property, and shout "ridiculous **** spews out of your mouth" all night, then follow him from his home, protesting him, all the time. Do you feel at any point this becomes an issue of harassment, and that such speech should at the very least be controlled in some way so as to prevent such harassment? Where is the line drawn between harassment and interfering with other people's rights and the right to free speech?

(Just curious.)

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

█ ♣ █


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:46 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
The government shouldn't involve itself in the situation. Period.

Not to restrict the speech.

Not to prosecute any attacks against the protesters.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:48 pm 
Offline
Home of the Whopper
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:51 am
Posts: 6098
Talya wrote:
Let's take a closer look at this, Rynar.


Say he chooses to remove himself. Say you choose to follow him, right to the edge of his property, and shout "ridiculous **** spews out of your mouth" all night, then follow him from his home, protesting him, all the time. Do you feel at any point this becomes an issue of harassment, and that such speech should at the very least be controlled in some way so as to prevent such harassment? Where is the line drawn between harassment and interfering with other people's rights and the right to free speech?

(Just curious.)


I'd like an answer to that one as well....where is the line drawn between free speech and harassment?

_________________
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:48 pm 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Politics should be local! I don't want them Goddamn feds in my business!

What a whole county is banding together and superseding the Constitution? Boys... go get dem guns i been stockpiling in muh basement. I smell socialists in Mississippi!

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:51 pm 
Offline
Oberon's Playground
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 9449
Location: Your Dreams
Rynar wrote:
The government shouldn't involve itself in the situation. Period.

Not to restrict the speech.

Not to prosecute any attacks against the protesters.


So someone constantly walking in front of you shouting obscenities in your face at no point ever becomes harassment? One should have no legal recourse for such actions as long as they stay off your property?

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

█ ♣ █


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:17 pm 
Offline
Noli me calcare
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 4747
If this really occurred, they wouldn't have to worry about getting a "Mississippi jury" to convict, civil rights violations are a Federal crime.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:24 pm 
Offline
Home of the Whopper
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:51 am
Posts: 6098
I tried to google the answer to that question, Talya, but all I could find was legal mumbo jumbo that I couldn't decipher and/or opinions with no backing.

Anyone wanna try dumbing this down for me? http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/harass/substanc.htm

_________________
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:41 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Talya wrote:
Rynar wrote:
The government shouldn't involve itself in the situation. Period.

Not to restrict the speech.

Not to prosecute any attacks against the protesters.


So someone constantly walking in front of you shouting obscenities in your face at no point ever becomes harassment? One should have no legal recourse for such actions as long as they stay off your property?


I suppose you could show tangible loss of property value for most of a neighboorhood, and impose huge retribution payments in civil court.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:46 pm 
Offline
Rihannsu Commander

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:31 am
Posts: 4709
Location: Cincinnati OH
So Rynar you're avocating a system with no 'reasonable restrictions' on time, and place for free speach?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:49 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
TheRiov wrote:
So Rynar you're avocating a system with no 'reasonable restrictions' on time, and place for free speach?


No. If you can show that the action has caused real, tangible loss, then you have recourse.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
Making obnoxious noise that invades your property is a breach of your property rights. They're sending loud shockwaves through the air into your property.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:12 pm 
Offline
Lean, Mean, Googling Machine
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 2903
Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
TFA wrote:
That, by itself, is a sadly unremarkable – though certainly noteworthy and solemn – occasion for us to mark.

This is excellence in professional editing, right here.

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
That's almost Alice in Wonderlandish.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5716
Stathol wrote:
TFA wrote:
That, by itself, is a sadly unremarkable – though certainly noteworthy and solemn – occasion for us to mark.

This is excellence in professional editing, right here.


LMAO


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:21 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
Right to travel was denied. Also if its public roads or public roads there are property right issues.

Likely it was a rights infringing act to park them in.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:19 pm 
Offline
Bull Moose
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 7507
Location: Last Western Stop of the Pony Express
Most likely it is a hoax. Brings out a good debate on the issues though.

_________________
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:23 pm 
Offline
I got nothin.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!
I have nothing particularly witty or insightful to add, so here's a picture of Sarah Palin with pancakes on her head.

Image

_________________
Image
Holy shitsnacks!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:38 pm 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
Elmarnieh wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Its a power under Common Law which as ruled by the SC supersedes statutory or precedent. That being said, the minimum one can arrest for is observation of a felony - some states may allow for broader powers but I'm not speaking in the scope of any specific state.


Show your work regarding common law.



"It [The U.S. Constitution] must be interpreted in the light of Common Law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the Constitution. The language of the Constitution could not be understood without reference to the Common Law." U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 18 S. Ct. 456.

"Law of the Land" means "The Common Law." Taylor v. Porter, 4 Hill. 140, 146 (1843) - Justice Bronson; and State v. Simon, 2 Spears 761, 767 (1884) - Justice O'Neal.

The U.S. adopted the Common Laws of England with the Constitution. Coldwell v. Hill, 176 S.E. 383 (1934).


This in no way supersedes statutory law or precedent. In that case, the decision was that the Constitution, namely the 14th ammendment, could not be superseded by act of Congress.

The only thing the decision of the court means is that in order to udnerstnad what the Constitution is supposed to mean, common law history has to be consulted as it would have been impractical to reate a legal system utterly from scratch when the country was founded.

Common Law

Quote:
Common law, also known as case law or precedent, is law developed by judges through decisions of courts and similar tribunals rather than through legislative statutes or executive branch action. A "common law system" is a legal system that gives great precedential weight to common law, on the principle that it is unfair to treat similar facts differently on different occasions.


Common law does not supersede precedent, it is precedent. It also cannot supersede statutory law merely by virtue of being common law; it is not some sort of unalterable law in perpetuity.

Quote:
In 1938, the U.S. Supreme Court in Erie Railroad Co. v. Tompkins 304 U.S. 64, 78 (1938), overruled earlier precedent,[57] and held "There is no federal general common law," thus confining the federal courts to act only as interpreters of law originating elsewhere. E.g., Texas Industries v. Radcliff, 451 U.S. 630 (1981) (without an express grant of statutory authority, federal courts cannot create rules of intuitive justice, for example, a right to contribution from co-conspirators). Post-1938, federal courts deciding issues that arise under state law are required to defer to state court interpretations of state statutes, or reason what a state's highest court would rule if presented with the issue, or to certify the question to the state's highest court for resolution.

Later courts have limited Erie slightly, to create a few situations where United States federal courts are permitted to create federal common law rules without express statutory authority, for example, where a federal rule of decision is necessary to protect uniquely federal interests. See, e.g., Clearfield Trust Co. v. United States, 318 U.S. 363 (1943) (giving federal courts the authority to fashion common law rules with respect to issues of federal power, in this case negotiable instruments backed by the federal government); see also International News Service v. Associated Press, 248 U.S. 215 (1918) (creating a cause of action for misappropriation of "hot news" that lacks any statutory grounding, but that is one of the handful of federal common law actions that survives today); National Basketball Association v. Motorola, Inc., 105 F.3d 841, 843-44, 853 (2d Cir. 1997) (noting continued vitality of INS "hot news" tort under New York state law, but leaving open the question of whether it survives under federal law). Except on Constitutional issues, Congress is free to legislatively overrule federal courts' common law.


There is no Federal common law, and Congress has the power to override it.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:40 pm 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
Elmarnieh wrote:
Terry doesn't deal with arrest in a broad term but provides an out in 4th amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches without warrant. It has little to do with the other methods of indicating one is under arrest and excuses none of them.


Yes it does. It broadly acknowledges the validity of detention for brief investigation, and of the legitimacy of a patdown for weapons only during such investigation, with reasonable suspicion.

Read the case, or better yet, stop trying to handwave it away.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 102 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 302 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group