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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:44 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
I assume the police fined them for that, so what is the issue?


The issue is that apparently it's ok to support people's rights when they are popular or convenient, not all the time.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
People also have the right not to hear other people's garbage.


Ummm.... no. No they don't. Where the hell are you pulling this out of?

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Sad that you think minority rights supercede majority rights.


No. Rights supercede non-rights.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:12 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
I guess I can see that, and even agree with the mentality. I just think that specifically blocking in their cars, with the sole intent of illegally preventing them from getting somewhere is crossing a line.


Blocking their cars is not 100% preventing them from going. They could walk. It is inconveniencing them, but that is not illegal. It could even be considered a source of nonviolent protest even.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:16 pm 
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Khross wrote:
An armed society is a polite society.


Fear and politeness are too different things.

A polite society is voluntary. Also, the threat of violence in response to speech is not polite.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:31 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
People also have the right not to hear other people's garbage.


Ummm.... no. No they don't. Where the hell are you pulling this out of?

So I have to listen to whatever ridiculous **** spews out of your mouth? Good to know. As an aside whose going to enforce that?

Edit: libertarian **** :p

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:36 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
People also have the right not to hear other people's garbage.


Ummm.... no. No they don't. Where the hell are you pulling this out of?

So I have to listen to whatever ridiculous **** spews out of your mouth? Good to know.


You have the right to remove yourself. You don't have the right to silence another person or group of people because you don't like what they have to say. In fact, the purpose of the First Amendment is to prevent the exact sort of governmental attack on Free Speech you are advocating.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:42 pm 
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Let's take a closer look at this, Rynar.


Say he chooses to remove himself. Say you choose to follow him, right to the edge of his property, and shout "ridiculous **** spews out of your mouth" all night, then follow him from his home, protesting him, all the time. Do you feel at any point this becomes an issue of harassment, and that such speech should at the very least be controlled in some way so as to prevent such harassment? Where is the line drawn between harassment and interfering with other people's rights and the right to free speech?

(Just curious.)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:46 pm 
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The government shouldn't involve itself in the situation. Period.

Not to restrict the speech.

Not to prosecute any attacks against the protesters.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Let's take a closer look at this, Rynar.


Say he chooses to remove himself. Say you choose to follow him, right to the edge of his property, and shout "ridiculous **** spews out of your mouth" all night, then follow him from his home, protesting him, all the time. Do you feel at any point this becomes an issue of harassment, and that such speech should at the very least be controlled in some way so as to prevent such harassment? Where is the line drawn between harassment and interfering with other people's rights and the right to free speech?

(Just curious.)


I'd like an answer to that one as well....where is the line drawn between free speech and harassment?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Politics should be local! I don't want them Goddamn feds in my business!

What a whole county is banding together and superseding the Constitution? Boys... go get dem guns i been stockpiling in muh basement. I smell socialists in Mississippi!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
The government shouldn't involve itself in the situation. Period.

Not to restrict the speech.

Not to prosecute any attacks against the protesters.


So someone constantly walking in front of you shouting obscenities in your face at no point ever becomes harassment? One should have no legal recourse for such actions as long as they stay off your property?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:17 pm 
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If this really occurred, they wouldn't have to worry about getting a "Mississippi jury" to convict, civil rights violations are a Federal crime.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:24 pm 
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I tried to google the answer to that question, Talya, but all I could find was legal mumbo jumbo that I couldn't decipher and/or opinions with no backing.

Anyone wanna try dumbing this down for me? http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/harass/substanc.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Rynar wrote:
The government shouldn't involve itself in the situation. Period.

Not to restrict the speech.

Not to prosecute any attacks against the protesters.


So someone constantly walking in front of you shouting obscenities in your face at no point ever becomes harassment? One should have no legal recourse for such actions as long as they stay off your property?


I suppose you could show tangible loss of property value for most of a neighboorhood, and impose huge retribution payments in civil court.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:46 pm 
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So Rynar you're avocating a system with no 'reasonable restrictions' on time, and place for free speach?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:49 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
So Rynar you're avocating a system with no 'reasonable restrictions' on time, and place for free speach?


No. If you can show that the action has caused real, tangible loss, then you have recourse.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Making obnoxious noise that invades your property is a breach of your property rights. They're sending loud shockwaves through the air into your property.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:12 pm 
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TFA wrote:
That, by itself, is a sadly unremarkable – though certainly noteworthy and solemn – occasion for us to mark.

This is excellence in professional editing, right here.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:16 pm 
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That's almost Alice in Wonderlandish.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:47 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
TFA wrote:
That, by itself, is a sadly unremarkable – though certainly noteworthy and solemn – occasion for us to mark.

This is excellence in professional editing, right here.


LMAO


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Right to travel was denied. Also if its public roads or public roads there are property right issues.

Likely it was a rights infringing act to park them in.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:19 pm 
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Most likely it is a hoax. Brings out a good debate on the issues though.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:23 pm 
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I have nothing particularly witty or insightful to add, so here's a picture of Sarah Palin with pancakes on her head.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:38 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Its a power under Common Law which as ruled by the SC supersedes statutory or precedent. That being said, the minimum one can arrest for is observation of a felony - some states may allow for broader powers but I'm not speaking in the scope of any specific state.


Show your work regarding common law.



"It [The U.S. Constitution] must be interpreted in the light of Common Law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the Constitution. The language of the Constitution could not be understood without reference to the Common Law." U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 18 S. Ct. 456.

"Law of the Land" means "The Common Law." Taylor v. Porter, 4 Hill. 140, 146 (1843) - Justice Bronson; and State v. Simon, 2 Spears 761, 767 (1884) - Justice O'Neal.

The U.S. adopted the Common Laws of England with the Constitution. Coldwell v. Hill, 176 S.E. 383 (1934).


This in no way supersedes statutory law or precedent. In that case, the decision was that the Constitution, namely the 14th ammendment, could not be superseded by act of Congress.

The only thing the decision of the court means is that in order to udnerstnad what the Constitution is supposed to mean, common law history has to be consulted as it would have been impractical to reate a legal system utterly from scratch when the country was founded.

Common Law

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Common law, also known as case law or precedent, is law developed by judges through decisions of courts and similar tribunals rather than through legislative statutes or executive branch action. A "common law system" is a legal system that gives great precedential weight to common law, on the principle that it is unfair to treat similar facts differently on different occasions.


Common law does not supersede precedent, it is precedent. It also cannot supersede statutory law merely by virtue of being common law; it is not some sort of unalterable law in perpetuity.

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In 1938, the U.S. Supreme Court in Erie Railroad Co. v. Tompkins 304 U.S. 64, 78 (1938), overruled earlier precedent,[57] and held "There is no federal general common law," thus confining the federal courts to act only as interpreters of law originating elsewhere. E.g., Texas Industries v. Radcliff, 451 U.S. 630 (1981) (without an express grant of statutory authority, federal courts cannot create rules of intuitive justice, for example, a right to contribution from co-conspirators). Post-1938, federal courts deciding issues that arise under state law are required to defer to state court interpretations of state statutes, or reason what a state's highest court would rule if presented with the issue, or to certify the question to the state's highest court for resolution.

Later courts have limited Erie slightly, to create a few situations where United States federal courts are permitted to create federal common law rules without express statutory authority, for example, where a federal rule of decision is necessary to protect uniquely federal interests. See, e.g., Clearfield Trust Co. v. United States, 318 U.S. 363 (1943) (giving federal courts the authority to fashion common law rules with respect to issues of federal power, in this case negotiable instruments backed by the federal government); see also International News Service v. Associated Press, 248 U.S. 215 (1918) (creating a cause of action for misappropriation of "hot news" that lacks any statutory grounding, but that is one of the handful of federal common law actions that survives today); National Basketball Association v. Motorola, Inc., 105 F.3d 841, 843-44, 853 (2d Cir. 1997) (noting continued vitality of INS "hot news" tort under New York state law, but leaving open the question of whether it survives under federal law). Except on Constitutional issues, Congress is free to legislatively overrule federal courts' common law.


There is no Federal common law, and Congress has the power to override it.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:40 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Terry doesn't deal with arrest in a broad term but provides an out in 4th amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches without warrant. It has little to do with the other methods of indicating one is under arrest and excuses none of them.


Yes it does. It broadly acknowledges the validity of detention for brief investigation, and of the legitimacy of a patdown for weapons only during such investigation, with reasonable suspicion.

Read the case, or better yet, stop trying to handwave it away.

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