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 Post subject: Bisexual Men Sue Gay...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:03 pm 
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Softball Organization for Discrimination


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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/gay-softball-org-allegedly-bans-bi-sexual-players-for-not-being-gay-enough/


A gay men’s softball organization is going head-to-head with three former bi-sexual players who claim that the group unfairly disqualified them for not being “gay enough.”

This week, a federal judge ruled that the organization does, indeed, have the constitutional right to limit the number of heterosexual players on each team (currently, the group allows for two straight players on each team). That said, the judge also ruled that the three players in question may bring their discrimination claims to trial. The Seattle Times has more:

The North American Gay Amateur Athletic Alliance oversees gay softball leagues in dozens of U.S. cities and runs an annual tournament called the Gay Softball World Series. Three men claim in a lawsuit filed last year that their team’s second-place finish in the 2008 tournament in Washington state was nullified because they are bisexual, not gay, and thus their team exceeded the limit of two non-gay players.

[U.S. District Judge John] Coughenour did say that questions remain about the way the softball association applied its rule, including whether the questions asked about the men’s sexuality at a protest hearing were unnecessarily intrusive. Therefore, the case can proceed toward a trial set for Aug. 1, he said.

The men say that they were unfairly questioned about their sexuality in front of an audience and that the group listening to their responses held a vote to determine whether or not they were actually gay. The Daily Mail continues:

The men’s lawsuit alleges that they were individually questioned about their sexuality – in a room containing as many as 25 people. Panel members then voted on whether they men were gay or not.

Seattle attorney Michael Reiss, for NAGAA, said the organisation would ‘vigorously dispute’ the men’s version of events.


Suzanne Thomas, for the the men and the National Center for Lesbian Rights, said: ‘No one should have to go through what they experienced.’


....

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:14 pm 
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If there's one thing gay people hate, it's bisexuals.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:18 pm 
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I support the judge's ruling. I support the rights of private organizations (not engaged in commerce, but even if acting in a pseudo-public capacity) to be discriminatory in their membership policies.

Go go Seattle, though...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:26 pm 
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Bisexual men and women get hated on by both sides. Heterosexuals think of them as fags and dykes, while homosexuals think of them as traitors. They're too gay to be straight, and not gay enough to be gay. It's like sexual preference is a war where you have to choose sides.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:31 pm 
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shuyung wrote:
If there's one thing gay people hate, it's bisexuals.


Hate is the wrong word. But there is certainly a feeling with many in the gay community that bisexuals aren't really "on your team", no pun intended.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:32 pm 
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Soooo...it's discrimination if we keep gay people out of stuff, but its perfectly legal for them to give straight people the boot? I will NEVER understand politics and law. Ever.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:37 pm 
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It isn't hate, it is pity. The phrase I'm familiar with is "bisexual now, gay later."

The overwhelming belief seems to be that the bisexuals are kidding themselves, they're really gay and are having problems accepting that.

Many in the gay community ostracize the bisexuals until "they accept what they are" and stop trying to be half straight.

I look at the situation as denial on both sides. There are certainly some who are doing the bisexual thing as a denial tactic to prolong their feelings of being able to fit into the majority, and the gay folk are denying such a thing as bisexual exists.

Work with a bunch of gay folk over the years and you get amazing glimpses into the culture.

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 Post subject: Bisexual Men Sue Gay...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:43 pm 
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I support their right to free association as long as they are willing to support mine.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:20 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
shuyung wrote:
If there's one thing gay people hate, it's bisexuals.


Hate is the wrong word. But there is certainly a feeling with many in the gay community that bisexuals aren't really "on your team", no pun intended.


No, it's not the wrong word at all. A great many gays do hate bisexuals, even if they don't hate straights. They feel that bisexuals are not "choosing a side" or are unfairly getting away with "appearing straight" when they don't happen to be with a same-sex partner.

Part of the problem is that what was originally lesbians and gays started yanking in bisexuals, then transsexuals, then whoever else was anything but straight and monogamous in what's a fairly typical "we're all minorities so we must agree with each other on everything" move to get more numbers.

This is despite the fact that bisexuals are not gay; they're bisexual. Transexuals aren't necessarily gay either; they're actually people with a fairly serious medical problem, not an alternate sexuality. Then, the more "militant" (for lack of a better term) gays wonder why there are issues when everything focuses on gay rights or gay acceptance or whatever. Gee, maybe it's because you're just subsuming other groups under your banner and then utterly ignoring how their status or feelings might be different than yours?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:42 pm 
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The irony is, everyone is "bisexual" to one degree or another. Most just don't know it.

It's such a case of "one step forward, two steps back" in situations like this. Rather than ending discrimination, they just create more groups to discrinate against.

Nobody's really that different.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:48 pm 
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If they are bisexual then they are LGBT, which is how most alternative people are institutionally grouped, so they should be on the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:27 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Aizle wrote:
shuyung wrote:
If there's one thing gay people hate, it's bisexuals.


Hate is the wrong word. But there is certainly a feeling with many in the gay community that bisexuals aren't really "on your team", no pun intended.


No, it's not the wrong word at all. A great many gays do hate bisexuals, even if they don't hate straights. They feel that bisexuals are not "choosing a side" or are unfairly getting away with "appearing straight" when they don't happen to be with a same-sex partner.

Part of the problem is that what was originally lesbians and gays started yanking in bisexuals, then transsexuals, then whoever else was anything but straight and monogamous in what's a fairly typical "we're all minorities so we must agree with each other on everything" move to get more numbers.

This is despite the fact that bisexuals are not gay; they're bisexual. Transexuals aren't necessarily gay either; they're actually people with a fairly serious medical problem, not an alternate sexuality. Then, the more "militant" (for lack of a better term) gays wonder why there are issues when everything focuses on gay rights or gay acceptance or whatever. Gee, maybe it's because you're just subsuming other groups under your banner and then utterly ignoring how their status or feelings might be different than yours?


I'm not sure what exposure you've had to the gay community at large, but I live in what is now the "most gay" city in the US, as Minneapolis just recently surpassed San Fran on that front. Additionally, having both an extensive theatre back ground as well as a number of gay friends, so I've got a pretty good pulse on the gay community. (yes, some stereotypes are true, there are a LOT of gay people in theatre)

Sure, there are some gays who hate bisexuals. But that is not the majority or the norm. There is some frustration sometimes at the fracturing of the "gay" community into GLBT, but if you look at pretty much every single large scale gay activist group or publication, they all reference GLBT these days. So I stand by my comment that hate is the wrong word, it doesn't accurately describe the feelings of the gay community today.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:53 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
I'm not sure what exposure you've had to the gay community at large, but I live in what is now the "most gay" city in the US, as Minneapolis just recently surpassed San Fran on that front. Additionally, having both an extensive theatre back ground as well as a number of gay friends, so I've got a pretty good pulse on the gay community. (yes, some stereotypes are true, there are a LOT of gay people in theatre)

Sure, there are some gays who hate bisexuals. But that is not the majority or the norm. There is some frustration sometimes at the fracturing of the "gay" community into GLBT, but if you look at pretty much every single large scale gay activist group or publication, they all reference GLBT these days. So I stand by my comment that hate is the wrong word, it doesn't accurately describe the feelings of the gay community today.


What you're describing really is a form of hate. Not passionate "I want all bisexuals to die" hate, but resentment of them for being different. If "hate" is too strong a word for that, then it's too strong a word for about 90% of the other bigotry it's used to refer to, and in any case there is a nontrivial minority of gays that actually do hate gays.

Regardless, resenting the split of the "gay community" into GLBT and whatever else falls under that umbrella is what's so totally unreasonable, mainly because it isn't a fracturing. Bisexuals, transsexuals and anyone else who isn't gay aren't part of the gay community because they aren't gay. The problem is, as I stated, that gays tried to pull them in to boost numbers, but still wanted everything to be all about gay issues, when bisexuals have different (although sometimes overlapping) issues. When GLBT organizations talk, they invariably start off talking about GLBT as a pro forma thing but it rapidly becomes gay this, gay that, gay the other thing.

Not only that, but there is significant resentment, even if it isn't burning, seething hatred, of bisexuals for their ability to "pretend to be straight" and not being "fully on the team" or whatever, especially if that bisexual has the gall to be with a person of the opposite sex or worse, bring that opposite sex person to a GLBT event, even if the other person is also bisexual.

The treatment of bisexuals is a form of tokenism at best, and bisexuals, if they were smart, would just stop being involved in anything GLBT, and so would transsexuals.

By the way, I have plenty of "exposure" to the "gay community". Living in a "gay city" does not give you some special awareness everyone else is deprived of.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:46 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
I support their right to free association as long as they are willing to support mine.


Like so many special interest groups, most folks only are exposed to the most vocal, the most sensational, or the worst aspects of the group. A few weekends a month I work security at a gay bar. I thought I was knowledgeable about things until I had almost a duck blind view of the nuances of the culture. Changed a lot of wrong misconceptions I had from the limited view of my gay friends. The gay community is the same as the straight community, they just have different preferences for indoor or outdoor plumbing. Drag queens on the other hand....

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:29 am 
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Not all LGBT folks are political, randy, or nightclub goers ;-p

How would you even know until you start to meet their partners, or discuss their relationship history, for most?

And how many folks ,really, do you do that with?


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 Post subject: Bisexual Men Sue Gay...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:57 pm 
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Hannibal wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
I support their right to free association as long as they are willing to support mine.


Like so many special interest groups, most folks only are exposed to the most vocal, the most sensational, or the worst aspects of the group. A few weekends a month I work security at a gay bar. I thought I was knowledgeable about things until I had almost a duck blind view of the nuances of the culture. Changed a lot of wrong misconceptions I had from the limited view of my gay friends. The gay community is the same as the straight community, they just have different preferences for indoor or outdoor plumbing. Drag queens on the other hand....

I don't doubt that. However you know what would happen if we tried to start the strait softball league or congressional white caucus.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:37 pm 
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Talya wrote:
The irony is, everyone is "bisexual" to one degree or another. Most just don't know it.


Well, as long as zero percent is one of the "degrees". ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Rare but yes...
Others tend to have "Bro love" and "Bro dates"... I think they are called sporting events :thumbs:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:10 pm 
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The more guys deny it, the more likelihood they are afraid of anyone finding out they are, to some degree.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:38 pm 
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And my denying that I'm a cyborg sent from the future by Skynet to eliminate mankind is due to my fear of anyone finding out. ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:05 pm 
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No, you're just afraid arnold might try to act again >=D


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:13 pm 
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Lydiaa wrote:
No, you're just afraid arnold might try to act again >=D


Afraid? I'm praying for it. And I already got my wish because he will be in the next Terminator movie. Bam! **** you people that don't like his movies. I hope all of you die.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:41 pm 
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He's made three good movies. The three written and directed by James Cameron. Which I'm sure is just a total coincidence.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:24 am 
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I remember liking Total Recall and Eraser. It was forever since I saw those though.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:01 am 
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FarSky wrote:
He's made three good movies. The three written and directed by James Cameron. Which I'm sure is just a total coincidence.


He's had more then 3 good movies.

Conan the Barbarian
The Terminator
Predator
Twins
Total Recall
Terminator 2
Last Action Hero
True Lies

All of those were quite good movies.


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