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 Post subject: Felonly Spanking.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:45 am 
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http://www.volunteertv.com/national/hea ... 72014.html

Really Texas...really?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:17 am 
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...that's ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: Felonly Spanking.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:17 am 
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I feel an appeal coming on. This is a blatant disregard of the law in the state of Texas:

Family Code

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(e) Only the following persons may use corporal punishment for the reasonable discipline of a child:

(1) a parent or grandparent of the child;

(2) a stepparent of the child who has the duty of control and reasonable discipline of the child; and

(3) an individual who is a guardian of the child and who has the duty of control and reasonable discipline of the child.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:21 am 
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https://www.oag.state.tx.us/AG_Publicat ... use2.shtml

Texas Attorney General website wrote:
Is spanking okay?

Texas law allows the use of force, but not deadly force, against a child by the child's parent, guardian, or other person who is acting in loco parentis. Most parents do, in fact, use corporal punishment (in the form of spanking) at least occasionally, and most do not, in fact, consider it abusive. Experts disagree about the advisability of ever spanking a child. Some say that, combined with other methods of discipline, mild spanking of a small child is harmless and effective. Others claim that other methods of discipline work as well as spanking or better, and that spanking is not necessary. Many child advocates and experts in child development contend that all forms of corporal punishment, including spanking, are harmful. Most believe that spanking an infant is always inappropriate. The law does not attempt to arbitrate between the different views on the best method of disciplining a child. What we do know is that severe corporal punishment can be extremely damaging and dangerous, and this is what the law prohibits as abuse.

When is discipline abusive?
Some parents who become abusive believe that what they are doing is in the best interest of the child and are confused about when an attempt at discipline crosses the line and becomes abuse. Whether an action is abusive really depends on the circumstances of the individual case. However, the following guidelines may help:

* Striking a child above the waist is more likely to be considered abusive; disciplinary spanking is usually confined to the buttocks.

* Spanking with the bare, open hand is least likely to be abusive; the use of an instrument is cause for concern. Belts and hair brushes are accepted by many as legitimate disciplinary "tools," and their use is not likely to be considered abusive, as long as injury does not occur. Electrical or phone cords, boards, yardsticks, ropes, shoes, and wires are likely to be considered instruments of abuse.

* It is best not to hit a child in anger. Abusive punishment is most likely to occur when the parent is out of control.

* Finally, and most important, punishment is abusive if it causes injury. A blow that causes a red mark that fades in an hour is not likely to be judged abusive. On the other hand, a blow that leaves a bruise, welt, or swelling, or requires medical attention, probably would be judged abusive.

Another abusive form of discipline that does not involve hitting is severe isolation or confinement of a child. Many parents use "time out," loss of privilege, or confinement to a special area as a punishment or as a time for the child to reconsider his or her choices. But when the child is tied up, gagged, locked in a closet, shut out, starved, or otherwise seriously deprived, the punishment is excessive and may constitute abuse.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:44 am 
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If you hurt people against their will, you get in trouble. Sounds simple to me. There's a lesson in this: don't hurt people against their will.


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 Post subject: Re: Felonly Spanking.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:31 pm 
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She plead guilty, she wasn't convicted. I don't think you can appeal that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:42 pm 
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I missed that. You still might be able to appeal on certain grounds, but it does call into question her willingness to do so.

I'd say it seriously questions her lawyer's competance, however, if he couldn't get it down to a misdemeanor. I'm amazed, given the remarks of the prosecution, that they proceded at all.

Part of the problem here is that it's simply another case of CPS out of control.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:46 pm 
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And a judge ignoring the law and not tossing this out to start with. Someone was just convicted for doing something that is explicitly not a crime.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:51 pm 
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I don't know, the injury to a child statue says you only need to inflict "bodily injury," which is pretty vague. This is one of the problems of the common law system, the judge has huge leeway to interpret the law how he wants, and this is what happens.

http://www.bakers-legal-pages.com/pc/2204.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Felonly Spanking.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:16 pm 
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The judge having leeway only applies to the punishment. She pled guilty when she pretty clearly should not have, if the facts are true.

The judge is still highly unreasonable in his opinion, and seems to throw in his lot with morons that think spanking is inherently abusive just because it involves physical force. Physical force isn't what makes abuse; it's the severity of it, and the manner in which it is done. That's why spanking should never be done when angry; it conveys the message that you are hitting in anger. It's supposed to be a consequence, and should be administered as dispassionately as possible.

Insofar as the law goes, the judge really only has leeway in imposing punishment. He isn't the one deciding whether the spanking is reasonable; she stipulated it wasn't by pleading guilty. She should not have done that, barring more facts appearing that we're not so far privvy to.

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 Post subject: Felonly Spanking.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:39 pm 
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She should have taken it before a jury. As I've said before doing otherwise only means she agrees that she did something that classified as assault.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:24 pm 
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Absurd. You can't reason with a smaller children. They don't understand the consequences of their actions. You can explain to them the wisdom of not running out into the street until you are blue in the face, but they understand don't-do-that-or I'll-get-spanked. Young kids are wimps anyway, you don't have to hit em hard and theyll probably cry like banshees.

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 Post subject: Re: Felonly Spanking.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:44 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
She should have taken it before a jury. As I've said before doing otherwise only means she agrees that she did something that classified as assault.


Quite true.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Wwen wrote:
Absurd. You can't reason with a smaller children. They don't understand the consequences of their actions. You can explain to them the wisdom of not running out into the street until you are blue in the face, but they understand don't-do-that-or I'll-get-spanked. Young kids are wimps anyway, you don't have to hit em hard and theyll probably cry like banshees.


That's true. With older kids, even into early-mid teens, there's a lot to be said for a spanking too. It gets the punishment over right then and there, whereas "time outs" are silly at this age, and lengthy punishments like taking away TV, video games, or the computer, or a grounding, are a burden on the whole family.

They basically turn the house into a jail, the parent into a corrections officer, and the child into an inmate, and the ongoing punishment hangs over everyone in the house. The parent has to constantly supervise to make sure the kid isn't sneaking around the punishment, and the kid constantly nags that they learned their lesson, can't I just go here, blah blah blah. A spanking may be painful and humiliating but I think most older kids would, if they really thought about it, rather have a punishment that lasts 5-10 minutes and lets them go do what they want afterwards as opposed to one that drags on for days.

The thing to remember though, is that after the spanking the parent needs to be careful to remember that the incident is behind them. If the kid wants to discuss it more, fine, but the parent should treat the matter as over, and the child forgiven now hat the consequence has been administered. In some cases a short stay in their room, maybe an hour or two tops, might be appropriate for them to calm down and think about why they were punished but again, after that, the matter should not be revisited, and the parent must not show any sign of lingering thoughts about what happened.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:01 pm 
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Wwen wrote:
Absurd. You can't reason with a smaller children. They don't understand the consequences of their actions. You can explain to them the wisdom of not running out into the street until you are blue in the face, but they understand don't-do-that-or I'll-get-spanked.


This is true. You do not need to injure. It is more like getting the kids attention. The only time I spanked my son was when he ran into the street and had to be yanked out of the way of a truck. He never ran out in the street again and is still alive.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:00 pm 
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*sigh*

what is the world coming to


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:51 pm 
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And to think I used to get the belt. I Lived and learned my lessons.
Oddly a couple years ago my father asked for my forgiveness in how he disciplined and raised me. My answer was "there is nothing to forgive you did what you understood and created the man that I am, are you pleased with what I have done with my life".
The topic has never come up again.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:41 am 
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Also, is "felonly" a word? :O

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:49 am 
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You guys can use violence against vulnerable children. I can't stop you. I think it's wrong. I'm not looking to debate, that's just my position.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:38 am 
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Wahh, "think of he children!?" :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:46 am 
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Wwen wrote:
Wahh, "think of he children!?" :D





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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:38 am 
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Hah. I saw a sticker that took it a step further and had a silhouette of a pregnant woman. I guess the next step is "Fetus on Board." "Testes and Ovum on Board."

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:22 pm 
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Wwen wrote:
Also, is "felonly" a word? :O

Felonious

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 Post subject: Re: Felonly Spanking.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:20 pm 
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Russle Peters on how to beat your kids.



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Last edited by Midgen on Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
fixed yt tags


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