The Glade 4.0

I'll give you one that I brought up a few weeks ago...and this really plays into the whole character issue.

He lied about his mother and her insurance issues. Lied, Aizle. Plain ole non-truth, fib, fabrication, pants on fire lied. He was pushing this huge healthcare issue that the majority of America did not want. Did it without all the transparency he promised(we have to pass it so we can find out what's in it). This huge, huge issue that will change the face of insurance and healthcare, not to mention the effect it is going to have on the economy, was sold to you, me and America(who again, as a majority did not want this) on a lie. A lie using his own mother at that if such make a difference to you.

That's high character to you? That's the kind of person you think should lead this country? That's who you feel is a good leader?

What's that old cliche we bring up about people who we view as shady? "He'd sell his own mother..." Don't know about you and your circle Aizle but someone gets that kind of rep, their character isn't something to be thought of highly.

I get you Aizle. You and I are pretty much the two sides of the same coin. Had you just said "He's very liberal, that's where my bread is buttered, four more years baby". I'd have been alright. But you say you voted based on his character? I'd be looking for a way out of that praise.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

One of the things you first have to recognize about American politics is that there are no policies, there are only people and their labels. The idea doesn't matter, only the person who proposes it. If an idea is proposed by a neo-conservative, than the policy is neo-conservative. Five years later, if the same idea is proposed by a liberal, than it's a liberal idea.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Couldn't agree more sadly.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Yeah, except that it seems that he didn't lie.

http://eba.benefitnews.com/news/health- ... 615-1.html



Was there word smithing and spin on his comments? Sure, he's a politician to expect otherwise is silly.

And no, I really don't think that you do get me. You never have, and I suspect never will.

But she wasn't denied based on a pre-existing condition.

She didn't get disability (from her employer) due to not signing on with them until after she was already sick.

She was trying to get disability to cover her deductible.

Saying "she was denied coverage based on a preexisting condition" is different from "she couldn't get disability from her company to cover the deductible". The former was a "modification of past events" used to push through legislation relating to coverage of pre-existing conditions.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

He lied. He siad one thing, it turned out to be another. Lied.

And yes, I do. You may not want to admit it but you are a partisan person. If it comes from one of your own, you are all for it. If it comes from someone not on your "side" you don't like it. One day maybe you will admit to it. Your boy has no character. You vote for him because he is a far left liberal and that's where you like things.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Whatever helps you sleep at night man. But no, you don't understand me at all.

Dude, what is there to understand? There is no nuances or context that will fix it. Obama lied. Period.

Lied.

He lied to push his agenda.

Lied.



Lied.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Don't need any help sleeping but I'm pretty sure I've got you pegged. Almost 10 years of posting and I can predict your replies at a pretty high rate(Hell, I told myself after my post about your boys insurance lie that you would try to spin it to not make it a lie. I was right). The funny thing is, you once made a post stating something like "well fair minded people will change their minds if given the facts". You've been given facts for almost 10 years and have yet to change your mind about anything.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

You have to make a slogan that rhymes for it to be true.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

God damn I can't get over it.

Obama absolutly lied. And Az is still ok with it- even excusing it. I really can't get it.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

"Liar liar pants on fire"?

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Obama lied about how poor people cried?

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

This thread made me think of this.



Perhaps you can predict some of my posts NF, however you still don't understand the why behind them. Frankly, I don't believe that your fundamentalism will ever allow you to.

Oooooo...my fundamentalism....I'm intrigued. Let's go around a while with this Aizle. Please, you seem to be my better. Tell me how my fundamentalism blocks me from seeing the oh so goodness in your bleeding liberal heart.

Also, great way to deflect and not have to defend the blatent lie your boy of such high character has told. Bravo.(I knew you would try to get away from debating that as well...thanks for staying on track)

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Thanks NF, but not interested. I'm not better than you or anyone else for that matter, regardless of how hard you try and hang that label on me.

As for the "lie" issue, I've already said my piece on it. Sorry you don't like the answer, but that's your problem, not mine.

Could you clarify your take on the lie again? All I got was you saying you just considered it "political spin", which is still lying, but acceptable lying as long as you agree with the outcome.

Was that about the meat of it?

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Not really. It was spin in that he was only telling part of the story. As in, she had expenses that were significant, that she obviously felt should have been covered, but weren't because she had a pre existing condition by the time that she was able to get insurance through her employer. He didn't supply that there were other fees that were covered. While that is true, it doesn't in my eyes invalidate the core of the message, which was that because she was sick prior to obtaining coverage, she was denied some level of coverage.

I also disagree with your definition of spin as being lying but is ok because of you agree with the outcome. Spin is putting a positive light on an issue and only highlighting those aspects which support your case. It's something that everyone one of us do here anytime we post our opinions on something or try and debate with people.

So while I agree that he's bent the "truth" with his statements, I don't believe they are to the point of being an outright lie as some folks here do.

As long as it justifies the end result, it's not a lie, it's just 'spin', which is apparently perfectly justifiable (as opposed to being one really good example what's wrong with politics).

So it's perfectly acceptable for the President of the United States to feed you a line of complete bullshit, as long as you agree with what he's trying to sell you?

Not what I've said Midgen.

As for it being a good example of what's wrong in politics, while I agree, railing against it is like railing against how sales works. You can do it, but it's basically a waste of time, because it's never going ot change.

I don't see Obama's story about his mother as being anything close to a lie. I'm not even sure it qualifies as "spin". His mother got sick, and when she tried to get disability insurance to cover related medical costs, she was denied coverage because of her pre-existing condition. Obama then spent months arguing with the insurance company to try to get that coverage for her. That's what happened, and, other than saying "health insurance" instead of "disability insurance", that's exactly what Obama said happened. It's not a significant distinction, particularly from the perspective of someone actually in that situation. In my opinion, the fact that you guys are hanging your hats on it as though it were some kind of damning indictment of Obama's character says more about your partisanship than Aizle's.

He lied. Why can't you just admit it? Your dear leader of which you said has ALL this character, lied to you using his own mother. And libs say tea party supporters are fanatics.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Didn't think so. You back down when confronted. Things get hard, you make up an excuse to leave.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

He's lied about lots of things. The "mom story" just isn't one of them.

He lied.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6703

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."