The Glade 4.0

Again I would like to say this: Not my **** concern to pay extra taxes to cover for some other ****'s health costs.

I work, I bust my *** to keep a job with decent health benefits... you cannot be bothered to work a decent job, or get a compensation package that accomidates all of your needs.. not my gorram problem. Stop making it my problem.

Just like you should not have to pay extra taxes to keep my unhealthy *** alive.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Brit Hume made an excellent point on (I think it was) Fox news. Crunching numbers, he was guesstimating that the premium will be a couple of grand, while the fine is only 250.00 at this point. So many (most) young Americans will choose to pay the 250 per year, rather than several thousand. And, since the bill prohibits excluding pre-existing conditions, if they get sick, a phone call gets them the insurance coverage they need right then. It looks like a huge problem.

$250.00 fine was only for businesses and was from the previous iteration. The personal fine involves Jail Time in the House approved version of the bill.

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He said the Senate version only has a fine of 250.00

There are several Senate versions, none of which have passed.

The House bill has, and should thus probably be considered the definitive bill at this point.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Can't be done, as under the current iteration of the House Bill - costs will go up. Democrats have promised that health reform would reduce health care costs, but legislation the House passed last week would increase costs over the next decade by $289 billion. By 2019, health costs would rise to 21.1 percent of GDP compared to 20.8 under current law, according to an actuarial report prepared by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Using hedonic regression (the Monetarist's favorite tool), since more people will be receiving care, and the gross increase in health care expenditures is not increasing proportionately, and this happens nearly "instantaneously" to where the quality of care bought with each dollar doesn't change (i.e. the change in expenditures and recipients is much faster than the health care technology improves so it is nearly a differential time element), we must therefore conclude the quality of care per dollar spent will decrease. So not only is the amount being spent in the aggregate increasing, but healthcare is becoming more expensive, dollar for dollar.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

Didn't someone already debunk that? I was pretty sure Xeq showed that the jail time was for not paying taxes in another thread.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Under H.R. 3962, anyone who does not carry healthcare is subject to an additional tax; if they don't pay the tax, they are subject to penalties up to and including felony evasion - $250,000 and five years in jail.

Joint Committee on Taxation

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Hey, you know what'd be great? If they made it a strict liability issue with no retroactive payment allowed. Then we'd truly be helping the uninsured.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Thanks, Vindicarre.

Fun times are ahead. Curiously enough, I will be considered uninsured under this new bill.

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No problem Khross. It's amazing what you can find on the interwebs. It's a sad commentary that relying on inter-committee correspondence seems to be more advantageous than reading the actual bills.

Why would you be considered uninsured under this bill?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

He's self-insured.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Vindicarre:

Because high deductible, catastrophic event insurance doesn't count.

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Ahhh. Of course it doesn't Khross, it involves financial responsibility and makes use of logical steps to limit the control others can exert over you. Clearly, the government cannot let that stand.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

You won't count as uninsured then, (I thought you self-insured) instead it just won't be legal for you to buy a plan like that.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

So, it's a tax, and tax evasion is a crime. Again, what's the problem? (other than being annoyed about the tax).

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

1. It is illegal.
2. It is an infringement on the rights of others.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

It's a tax mandating we have to purchase a service. That's the problem.

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The Dude abides.

No, it's a tax that applies if you *don't* purchase a service, and if you avoid paying the tax, you are guilty of tax evasion.

I'm not saying it's not obnoxious, or even under handed. It is, however, not what it's being described as.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

It is not a tax.

It is a fine.

A tax punishes legal behavior.
A fine punishes illegal behavior.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

It's a fine for not paying a tax, Elmo.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

How do you avoid the tax?

All other Federal taxes in this country are at least remotely, though perhaps unrealistically, avoidable.

You're championing a tax to exist.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Like most other federal taxes, you avoid it by being poor enough to not have to pay it. In this case, you use medicaid.

I am not championing a "tax to exist", although I bet you could make a mint selling that particular frame to the RNC as a talking point. Much like "death tax" is an appeal to emotion, so is that phrase.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill