The Glade 4.0

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Holy shitsnacks!

How do 3 chicken nuggets meet the USDA requirements of: "one serving of meat, one serving of milk, one serving of grain, and two servings of fruit or vegetables"?

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It was all on her tray. The fact she didn't eat it was irrellivant. I wondered if the lady couldn't have just kept two cans I v8 juice in the lunch box perpetually and it would have counted.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Interesting, considering studies have shown vegetarians live longer.

Interesting since I have never met a healthy vegetarian and human biology would indicate that this is a falsehood.

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I've also seen studies that smoking is good for your lungs, a Paleo diet makes you live longer, coffee enemas make you live longer, and erratic sleep cycles make you live longer. Find the conclusion you want, and I bet there is a study that will support it, and plenty more to refute it.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

I fail to see what any of this has to do with the issue at hand. According to some other things I've heard on this, Meet and dairy substitutes would have met the requirements.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

What human biology would that be? I've never met an unhealthy vegetarian.

/shrug. Haven't seen a study that says eating meat regularly is better for you. I have seen studies that say eating fish and/or meat on occasion is not bad.

Like you say, draw your own conclusions - I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just basing my opinion on what evidence is available, not on what I want to hear.

The fact that our eyes are centered forward like a predator, the presence of canine teeth, the lack of a natural ability to break down plant cellulose, a single stomach instead of four...

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Here is one: http://articles.cnn.com/2002-11-19/heal ... =PM:HEALTH

Eat a sensible, balanced diet as nature intended.

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Um, no? Did you read that article? It was about Atkins. That is not a sensible, balanced diet by any stretch of the imagination. Also, the article talked about potential problems with the study (fish oil) and how it's very small and states many times that more study needs to be done.

So yes - it is a study that says eating more meat is good for you. No, it doesn't say it's better than being a vegetarian. No, it doesn't mean what you say it means, which is to eat a balanced diet.

Last - balanced diet is a bit meaningless due to its ambiguity. Of course you should eat a balanced diet. Vegetarians should as well. They do - at least as far as the ones I have met.

I misread your question. My link to your requested study is independent of my second statement.

If you have trouble figuring out what a balanced diet is that would be your problem. However, vegetarians by definition cannot eat a balanced diet since they restrict themselves to a singular type of protein, calories and carbohydrates.

As to your studies: Here's a textbook by a dentist who travelled the world studying nutrition:
http://astore.amazon.com/theheahomec0a- ... 0916764206



Several studies cited here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism#Longevity

Another (citations on site here: http://www.healthiertalk.com/sorry-vegetarians-4182)


http://calorielab.com/news/2009/12/05/i ... based-one/


We can go back and forth on these all day with you producing pro-vegetarian studies and me providing studies like the above. But common sense and evolutionary biology would indicate that humans are intended to be omnivorous and a healthy diet should include stuff from Column A and Column B in moderation.

*shrug*

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Actually, there's a decent argument out there from a biochemical perspective that says we're really still more carnivores. External features evolve faster than changes in biochemical pathways, so while our teeth and digestive track have adapted to take advantage of plant nutrients, our metabolic pathways really haven't caught up.

With the strong links between carbohydrate intake and a number of disease states, it's not a hard theory to support. You can always look at an excellent "case study" in the Eskimo tribes- they were surviving great (healthy, good longevity, etc) on a completely carnivorous diet. Then the population became riddled with disease almost as soon as carbohydrates were introduced.

The body can break down any of the three categories of biomolecules for energy, but of the three, fats are by far the most efficient in terms of low byproducts/high energy per unit of fuel. In a "carnivorous" system, fats are broken down for energy, which is in turn used to turn excess proteins into glucose, which the brain needs to function.

The problem with taking in large amounts of carbohydrates is that our systems use them as one of the central regulatory molecules for the control of all metabolic pathways. Our system is designed such that an excess of fats and proteins leads to high blood sugar levels, and hence high blood sugar levels are a direct indicator of high protein and lipid levels. If you take in large amounts of carbohydrates directly, however, you blow that regulatory system all to hell.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

I believe they can get anything they need without consuming meat. May require artificial supplements.



I agree that we are designed to be omnivores. That is obvious. Countering biology is not necessarily bad. If all required nutrients are taken in, you're good. If you can do so without taking in harmful materials, you're better off. Think the scene in the Matrix where they are all eating the mushy crap. It may taste like ***, but it's all they need.

Now, you say figuring out what a "balanced diet" is is my problem. I'd counter that this is really the problem being looked into in all the studies either of us are looking at. What is the proper balance? You then bring up "moderation", which is really just another ambiguous term for balance.

Even your studies above don't really address the point: meat's not that good for you. While there are lots of studies out there that say vegetarianism is ok, many of these bring up some of the issues you point out. Things to watch out for. It appears that these issues can be corrected with a very modest amount of meat. Consuming a small amount of meat is likewise consistent with our biology (only two canines, more molars, etc). Your studies support this as well. Very few support a heavy meat diet.

So that gets back to the original article. One serving of meat, one serving of dairy with every meal. Even if you don't subscribe to the idea that vegetarianism is good, it seems this quantity of animal product is an excessive requirement.

Interesting, though there may be some pieces of the puzzle missing. How many generations were they on meat only? How much of that was fish (it seems to be well documented that eating a lot of fish is better than pretty much anything else, vegetarianism or modest meat included)? Also - considering the vegetarian studies and the Atkins studies, both of which seem to show benefits, perhaps the worst thing you can do is significant carbs plus heavy meat? That seems to be the case, that it's somehow the combination that makes things worse.



I'm not sure that vegetarians really eat that many more carbs than other folks. From what I've seen, they eat about the same food, only replacing the meat with more fruit and vegetables.

You must be around a lot "better" vegetarians than I am. A lot of the ones I know just load up on carbs.

I tend to eat lean meat + fruits and vegetables, and try to steer away from carbs- most of the vegetarians I know would replace what I eat in meat with carbs, rather than replacing it with more fruit and vegetables.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Me - I just eat whatever and then later say "I shouldn't have eaten that".

All of the vegetarians (I include vegans in this category) I know have to eat a handful of vitamins every day to offset the nutritional disadvantage they have placed upon themselves. If you have to go outside of your own dietary restrictions to get essential vitamins and nutrients, then you are doing it wrong

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And yet dietary supplements are recommended for just about everyone.

By whom? I have never been told by any medical professional that I need any dietary supplements.

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AAAH! What Cookies aren't recommended?

/shoots - Division of Child Development and Early Education at the Department of Health and Human Services

Hey where is the gun emoticon?

Life without cookies to a pre-schooler would be like stepping on a person's hopes and dreams forever.

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"None is more important, none more legitimate, than that of rendering the people safe as they are the
ultimate guardians of their own liberty."- Thomas Jefferson

"Yeah, I'm rehearsing my poker face. I don't handle stupid well. *sigh*" - Farsky

You know the FDA is trying to regulate vitamins, right?

There’s a joke amongst the regulatory people that all Multivitamins are just expensive urine.

While it does help in rare cases of deficiency, in majority of people it doesn't do much. Even in those rare cases where it does help, it’s only 1-2 vitamins that are actually needed, based on the person’s diet.

Most regulated countries already regulate vitamins and mineral as they tend to claim a whole lot, and do mostly nothing. The US have given them a free pass as they don’t tend to pose a lot of risk, and most of the products have been on the market for a substantial amount of time (grand fathering)

The reason why dietary supplements are recommended often is because it’s the easier option to try. It’s harmless to everyone, has a placebo effect, gets you off the doctor’s back for a while, and you’ll have to pay for a re-visit.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."