The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 1:03 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: My new plan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:39 pm 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
I'm going to darken my skin, move to NY and fail the FDNY test.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/federal ... ance-exams

Quote:

Federal Judge Imposes Racial Quota on FDNY, Responding to Minorities Who Failed Entrance Exams


(CNSNews.com) – A federal judge is ordering the New York City Fire Department to implement racial quotas to address grievances from minorities who failed entrance exams.

On July 5 in Brooklyn, Nicholas G. Garaufis, a Clinton-appointed judge for the Eastern District of New York, issued a ruling that requires two of every five newly hired fireman to be black and one of every five, Hispanic -- until the department has fulfilled the court-ordered quota of 186 black and 107 Hispanic hires.

The ruling allows back pay -- totaling an estimated $128.7 million -- for minorities who failed written tests.

The court order is a response to a lawsuit alleging that two placement exams (Written Exams 7029 or 2043) for the FDNY were discriminatory against blacks and Hispanics, because fewer minorities passed the exam than whites. (See copies of the exams here.)

The Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division is responsible for prosecuting cases under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The DOJ claims the written exams had an “unlawful disparate impact,” causing fewer minorities to be hired.

“Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits not only intentional discrimination, but also employment practices that appear to be fair in form but are discriminatory in operation,” the Department states in a fact sheet on the FDNY case. “A facially neutral employment practice, such as a written examination, that disproportionately excludes individuals from employment opportunities on the basis of their membership in a protected group, such as a particular race or national origin, and cannot be shown to be related to job performance, violates Title VII.”

Judge Garanufis ruled that any black or Hispanic individual who failed either written exam with a score of 25 out of 100 or higher is eligible to receive place on the priority hiring list as well as damages, including “non-economic damages.”

Non-economic damages are intended to compensate for the “lost intangible benefits of being a firefighter.” The intangible benefits include “prestige, job satisfaction, camaraderie, unique excitement, enjoyment of flexible scheduling, unusual employment stability, feeling of security derived from retiring with a full pension and lifetime medical benefits, and the potential for career advancement.”

All new hires must pass an updated test—Exam 2000—as long as it is found to comply with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, the ruling states.

Further, Judge Garanufis ruled that minorities who were not hired because they failed the entrance exams must be paid a “retroactively higher salary” and receive “retroactive seniority” once they are hired through the new quota system. Retroactive seniority affects accrual of vacation and sick leave, among other benefits.

The Bush Justice Department filed suit against the FDNY in May 2007, challenging the exams that were first administered in 1999 and 2002. In July 2009, Judge Garaufis ruled that New York City had violated Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, and then in 2010 he found the city liable for “intentional discrimination against black applicants,” according to the DOJ.

In a previous ruling, Judge Garaufis accused the FDNY of being a “bastion of white male privilege.”

"While the City's other uniformed services and fire departments across the country have changed to reflect the communities they serve, employment as a New York City firefighter -- arguably 'the best job in the world' -- has remained a stubborn bastion of white male privilege," Garaufis wrote in October 2011.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:40 pm 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
I encourage folks who read this to check out the link to the tests.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:48 pm 
Offline
Home of the Whopper
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:51 am
Posts: 6098
Why do I have a sense of deja vu? I actually had to check the date on the article...didn't we discuss something very similar a couple of years ago on here?

Also, someone else said it better than I could:


" To rule that just because minorities failed the test more often than whites makes the test racially discriminatory is outrageous and insane.
The test discriminates all right, between those who should and should not be hired!"

_________________
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:16 pm 
Offline
pbp Hack
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:45 pm
Posts: 7585
can anyone show me how the test is non-compliant. what in it is slanted against minorities?

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:25 pm 
Offline
Home of the Whopper
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:51 am
Posts: 6098
Here is a link to a copy of an exam: http://documents.nytimes.com/new-york-city-firefighter-examinations

I don't think there is anything in there that is biased towards one race or another....it's all general operational, situational, etc.....kind of scary actually that they're allowing ANYONE who failed it to go ahead and get the job.

_________________
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:29 pm 
Offline
Asian Blonde

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:14 pm
Posts: 2075
LadyKate wrote:
Here is a link to a copy of an exam: http://documents.nytimes.com/new-york-city-firefighter-examinations

I don't think there is anything in there that is biased towards one race or another....it's all general operational, situational, etc.....kind of scary actually that they're allowing ANYONE who failed it to go ahead and get the job.


Yes but if they fail to remember the safety protocol and die while on duty... it's only because NY fires are Racist!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:01 am 
Offline
Home of the Whopper
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:51 am
Posts: 6098
Lydiaa wrote:
Yes but if they fail to remember the safety protocol and die while on duty... it's only because NY fires are Racist!


:lol:

I'm laughing, but that seriously seems to be the attitude....what happened to personal accountability and people of all colors/ethnicities working their fingers to the bone for their dream job? It's sad on so many levels...dignity and honor seem to be disappearing quickly.

_________________
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:44 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Rorinthas wrote:
can anyone show me how the test is non-compliant. what in it is slanted against minorities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_Impact

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:06 am 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
Hopwin wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
can anyone show me how the test is non-compliant. what in it is slanted against minorities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_Impact



That is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:13 am 
Offline
Home of the Whopper
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:51 am
Posts: 6098
I'm with you on that one, NF...I had to go back through the original article and re-read where they quoted the law on "Disparate Impact."
Any way you word it, it's still a law that basically says that you cannot NOT hire a minority if they fail to pass the test for a job, even if it's the same test given to everyone and even if there is nothing racially unfair/discriminatory within the test content itself.

_________________
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:26 am 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
It just reminds of how screwed up things are in this world.

Personal responsibility? Screw it. Working hard to become better and compete? Screw it.

It's just hard to comprehend that we actually have situations that reward people for not being good enough and punish folks who excel. And that we have a whole group ideology that supports that!

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:36 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Nitefox wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
can anyone show me how the test is non-compliant. what in it is slanted against minorities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_Impact



That is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Still the law of the land since '64.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:50 am 
Offline
Lucky Bastard
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:11 am
Posts: 2341
Nitefox wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
can anyone show me how the test is non-compliant. what in it is slanted against minorities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_Impact



That is the dumbest thing I've ever read.


I really want to stop reading at "protected class". Are blacks endangered now?

This whole thing is ridiculous. How can anyone with an ounce of common sense agree with this.

- non-minority passes test with flying colors - not hired because enough of that non-minority is already on the payroll.

- minority (protected class) passed with less than satisfactory score - hired because (s)he is the best scoring in the group of their protected class.

Hiring based on the color of one's skin, not on their actual ability to perform the job. Un-F*cking-believable.

_________________
This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:00 am 
Offline
Home of the Whopper
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:51 am
Posts: 6098
Foamy wrote:

I really want to stop reading at "protected class". Are blacks endangered now?



:spit: Hahahahaha!!

Also, it's not just blacks, it's hispanics as well, and any other minority...I wonder if this is applicable to women as well, of all races? If a white woman fails would she be covered by this under the minority umbrella?

_________________
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:05 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
LadyKate wrote:
Also, it's not just blacks, it's hispanics as well, and any other minority...I wonder if this is applicable to women as well, of all races? If a white woman fails would she be covered by this under the minority umbrella?

Women are a protected class under adverse impact: (same link as above)
adverse impact is defined as a "substantially different rate of selection in hiring, promotion, or other employment decision which works to the disadvantage of members of a race, sex, or ethnic group."

So will white people once we are officially no longer the majority.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:25 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
So you know how Democrats complain that Republicans do robo calls reminding people to vote on Wednesday?

Awesome story (bold = me):
http://www.neoch.org/cleveland-homeless ... tions.html
Quote:
Rev. Tony Minor said that many African American churches were planning a coordinated "Voter Sunday," which would now be transformed into a "Voting Monday, Voting Tuesday, Voting Wednesday" and "Voting Thursday."

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5716
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

That is all


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:08 pm 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
Stop the planet please, I want to get off. :(


Quote:
On July 5 in Brooklyn, Nicholas G. Garaufis, a Clinton-appointed judge for the Eastern District of New York, issued a ruling that requires two of every five newly hired fireman to be black and one of every five, Hispanic -- until the department has fulfilled the court-ordered quota of 186 black and 107 Hispanic hires


so now that 3 of every 5 hires must be minorities... when do the non colored or hispanic people get to say that they are being unfairly discriminated against?

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Article wrote:
The Bush Justice Department filed suit against the FDNY in May 2007, challenging the exams that were first administered in 1999 and 2002. In July 2009, Judge Garaufis ruled that New York City had violated Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, and then in 2010 he found the city liable for “intentional discrimination against black applicants,” according to the DOJ.

In a previous ruling, Judge Garaufis accused the FDNY of being a “bastion of white male privilege.”

"While the City's other uniformed services and fire departments across the country have changed to reflect the communities they serve, employment as a New York City firefighter -- arguably 'the best job in the world' -- has remained a stubborn bastion of white male privilege," Garaufis wrote in October 2011.


So we have the Bush Justice department suing them, plus at least 2 other lawsuits against the department for discrimination that appears to have been going on for over 13 years or more.

Why are everyone's undies in a bunch again?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:29 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
/facepalm

The first thing you thought of after reading this was "Bush vs. Clinton spat"?

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:45 pm 
Offline
Asian Blonde

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:14 pm
Posts: 2075
Other things whites are dominant in

Surgeons
Pilots
Lawyers
CEOs

It's obvious there's an epidemic over there! Shame on all you whites :derp:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Rynar wrote:
/facepalm

The first thing you thought of after reading this was "Bush vs. Clinton spat"?


Nope, I'm quoting the article. The salient points are:

1. There has been legal action along the same vein for 5 years, for issues that have been going on for 13 years.
2. The legal action has been taken up by both a republican and a democratic administration.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:29 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Aizle wrote:
Rynar wrote:
/facepalm

The first thing you thought of after reading this was "Bush vs. Clinton spat"?


Nope, I'm quoting the article. The salient points are:

1. There has been legal action along the same vein for 5 years, for issues that have been going on for 13 years.
2. The legal action has been taken up by both a republican and a democratic administration.

That's bi-partisainly(?) just as bad.

Why does any real person care how political parties feel about this?

That has nothing to do with anything.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:56 pm 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
Azile, I don't care what party or political thought process supported this mess of an issue...the issue itself is wrong and you're(not you specifically) a moron with no sense of right and wrong if you think this thing is right on any level.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:54 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
I think maybe some of you guys missed the point in my link that if NYFD could have demonstrated in court that their test is actually applicable to the job then it wouldn't be discriminatory and they would not need to have quotas. Looking through the test I don't see how NYFD could have failed to do so unless the judge was in fact biased to begin with.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 244 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group