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 Post subject: My new plan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:39 pm 
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The King
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I'm going to darken my skin, move to NY and fail the FDNY test.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/federal ... ance-exams

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Federal Judge Imposes Racial Quota on FDNY, Responding to Minorities Who Failed Entrance Exams


(CNSNews.com) – A federal judge is ordering the New York City Fire Department to implement racial quotas to address grievances from minorities who failed entrance exams.

On July 5 in Brooklyn, Nicholas G. Garaufis, a Clinton-appointed judge for the Eastern District of New York, issued a ruling that requires two of every five newly hired fireman to be black and one of every five, Hispanic -- until the department has fulfilled the court-ordered quota of 186 black and 107 Hispanic hires.

The ruling allows back pay -- totaling an estimated $128.7 million -- for minorities who failed written tests.

The court order is a response to a lawsuit alleging that two placement exams (Written Exams 7029 or 2043) for the FDNY were discriminatory against blacks and Hispanics, because fewer minorities passed the exam than whites. (See copies of the exams here.)

The Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division is responsible for prosecuting cases under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The DOJ claims the written exams had an “unlawful disparate impact,” causing fewer minorities to be hired.

“Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits not only intentional discrimination, but also employment practices that appear to be fair in form but are discriminatory in operation,” the Department states in a fact sheet on the FDNY case. “A facially neutral employment practice, such as a written examination, that disproportionately excludes individuals from employment opportunities on the basis of their membership in a protected group, such as a particular race or national origin, and cannot be shown to be related to job performance, violates Title VII.”

Judge Garanufis ruled that any black or Hispanic individual who failed either written exam with a score of 25 out of 100 or higher is eligible to receive place on the priority hiring list as well as damages, including “non-economic damages.”

Non-economic damages are intended to compensate for the “lost intangible benefits of being a firefighter.” The intangible benefits include “prestige, job satisfaction, camaraderie, unique excitement, enjoyment of flexible scheduling, unusual employment stability, feeling of security derived from retiring with a full pension and lifetime medical benefits, and the potential for career advancement.”

All new hires must pass an updated test—Exam 2000—as long as it is found to comply with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, the ruling states.

Further, Judge Garanufis ruled that minorities who were not hired because they failed the entrance exams must be paid a “retroactively higher salary” and receive “retroactive seniority” once they are hired through the new quota system. Retroactive seniority affects accrual of vacation and sick leave, among other benefits.

The Bush Justice Department filed suit against the FDNY in May 2007, challenging the exams that were first administered in 1999 and 2002. In July 2009, Judge Garaufis ruled that New York City had violated Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, and then in 2010 he found the city liable for “intentional discrimination against black applicants,” according to the DOJ.

In a previous ruling, Judge Garaufis accused the FDNY of being a “bastion of white male privilege.”

"While the City's other uniformed services and fire departments across the country have changed to reflect the communities they serve, employment as a New York City firefighter -- arguably 'the best job in the world' -- has remained a stubborn bastion of white male privilege," Garaufis wrote in October 2011.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:40 pm 
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I encourage folks who read this to check out the link to the tests.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Why do I have a sense of deja vu? I actually had to check the date on the article...didn't we discuss something very similar a couple of years ago on here?

Also, someone else said it better than I could:


" To rule that just because minorities failed the test more often than whites makes the test racially discriminatory is outrageous and insane.
The test discriminates all right, between those who should and should not be hired!"

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:16 pm 
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can anyone show me how the test is non-compliant. what in it is slanted against minorities?

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 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:25 pm 
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Here is a link to a copy of an exam: http://documents.nytimes.com/new-york-city-firefighter-examinations

I don't think there is anything in there that is biased towards one race or another....it's all general operational, situational, etc.....kind of scary actually that they're allowing ANYONE who failed it to go ahead and get the job.

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 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:29 pm 
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LadyKate wrote:
Here is a link to a copy of an exam: http://documents.nytimes.com/new-york-city-firefighter-examinations

I don't think there is anything in there that is biased towards one race or another....it's all general operational, situational, etc.....kind of scary actually that they're allowing ANYONE who failed it to go ahead and get the job.


Yes but if they fail to remember the safety protocol and die while on duty... it's only because NY fires are Racist!


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 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:01 am 
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Lydiaa wrote:
Yes but if they fail to remember the safety protocol and die while on duty... it's only because NY fires are Racist!


:lol:

I'm laughing, but that seriously seems to be the attitude....what happened to personal accountability and people of all colors/ethnicities working their fingers to the bone for their dream job? It's sad on so many levels...dignity and honor seem to be disappearing quickly.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:44 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
can anyone show me how the test is non-compliant. what in it is slanted against minorities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_Impact

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:06 am 
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Hopwin wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
can anyone show me how the test is non-compliant. what in it is slanted against minorities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_Impact



That is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:13 am 
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I'm with you on that one, NF...I had to go back through the original article and re-read where they quoted the law on "Disparate Impact."
Any way you word it, it's still a law that basically says that you cannot NOT hire a minority if they fail to pass the test for a job, even if it's the same test given to everyone and even if there is nothing racially unfair/discriminatory within the test content itself.

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 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:26 am 
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It just reminds of how screwed up things are in this world.

Personal responsibility? Screw it. Working hard to become better and compete? Screw it.

It's just hard to comprehend that we actually have situations that reward people for not being good enough and punish folks who excel. And that we have a whole group ideology that supports that!

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:36 am 
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Nitefox wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
can anyone show me how the test is non-compliant. what in it is slanted against minorities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_Impact



That is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Still the law of the land since '64.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:50 am 
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Nitefox wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
can anyone show me how the test is non-compliant. what in it is slanted against minorities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_Impact



That is the dumbest thing I've ever read.


I really want to stop reading at "protected class". Are blacks endangered now?

This whole thing is ridiculous. How can anyone with an ounce of common sense agree with this.

- non-minority passes test with flying colors - not hired because enough of that non-minority is already on the payroll.

- minority (protected class) passed with less than satisfactory score - hired because (s)he is the best scoring in the group of their protected class.

Hiring based on the color of one's skin, not on their actual ability to perform the job. Un-F*cking-believable.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:00 am 
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Foamy wrote:

I really want to stop reading at "protected class". Are blacks endangered now?



:spit: Hahahahaha!!

Also, it's not just blacks, it's hispanics as well, and any other minority...I wonder if this is applicable to women as well, of all races? If a white woman fails would she be covered by this under the minority umbrella?

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:05 am 
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LadyKate wrote:
Also, it's not just blacks, it's hispanics as well, and any other minority...I wonder if this is applicable to women as well, of all races? If a white woman fails would she be covered by this under the minority umbrella?

Women are a protected class under adverse impact: (same link as above)
adverse impact is defined as a "substantially different rate of selection in hiring, promotion, or other employment decision which works to the disadvantage of members of a race, sex, or ethnic group."

So will white people once we are officially no longer the majority.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:25 am 
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So you know how Democrats complain that Republicans do robo calls reminding people to vote on Wednesday?

Awesome story (bold = me):
http://www.neoch.org/cleveland-homeless ... tions.html
Quote:
Rev. Tony Minor said that many African American churches were planning a coordinated "Voter Sunday," which would now be transformed into a "Voting Monday, Voting Tuesday, Voting Wednesday" and "Voting Thursday."

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:32 am 
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

That is all


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:08 pm 
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Stop the planet please, I want to get off. :(


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On July 5 in Brooklyn, Nicholas G. Garaufis, a Clinton-appointed judge for the Eastern District of New York, issued a ruling that requires two of every five newly hired fireman to be black and one of every five, Hispanic -- until the department has fulfilled the court-ordered quota of 186 black and 107 Hispanic hires


so now that 3 of every 5 hires must be minorities... when do the non colored or hispanic people get to say that they are being unfairly discriminated against?

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 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:49 pm 
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Article wrote:
The Bush Justice Department filed suit against the FDNY in May 2007, challenging the exams that were first administered in 1999 and 2002. In July 2009, Judge Garaufis ruled that New York City had violated Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, and then in 2010 he found the city liable for “intentional discrimination against black applicants,” according to the DOJ.

In a previous ruling, Judge Garaufis accused the FDNY of being a “bastion of white male privilege.”

"While the City's other uniformed services and fire departments across the country have changed to reflect the communities they serve, employment as a New York City firefighter -- arguably 'the best job in the world' -- has remained a stubborn bastion of white male privilege," Garaufis wrote in October 2011.


So we have the Bush Justice department suing them, plus at least 2 other lawsuits against the department for discrimination that appears to have been going on for over 13 years or more.

Why are everyone's undies in a bunch again?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:29 pm 
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/facepalm

The first thing you thought of after reading this was "Bush vs. Clinton spat"?

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 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Other things whites are dominant in

Surgeons
Pilots
Lawyers
CEOs

It's obvious there's an epidemic over there! Shame on all you whites :derp:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
/facepalm

The first thing you thought of after reading this was "Bush vs. Clinton spat"?


Nope, I'm quoting the article. The salient points are:

1. There has been legal action along the same vein for 5 years, for issues that have been going on for 13 years.
2. The legal action has been taken up by both a republican and a democratic administration.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Rynar wrote:
/facepalm

The first thing you thought of after reading this was "Bush vs. Clinton spat"?


Nope, I'm quoting the article. The salient points are:

1. There has been legal action along the same vein for 5 years, for issues that have been going on for 13 years.
2. The legal action has been taken up by both a republican and a democratic administration.

That's bi-partisainly(?) just as bad.

Why does any real person care how political parties feel about this?

That has nothing to do with anything.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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 Post subject: Re: My new plan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Azile, I don't care what party or political thought process supported this mess of an issue...the issue itself is wrong and you're(not you specifically) a moron with no sense of right and wrong if you think this thing is right on any level.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:54 am 
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I think maybe some of you guys missed the point in my link that if NYFD could have demonstrated in court that their test is actually applicable to the job then it wouldn't be discriminatory and they would not need to have quotas. Looking through the test I don't see how NYFD could have failed to do so unless the judge was in fact biased to begin with.

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