The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:59 am

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » The Glade » Hellfire

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 3 of 4
  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Corolinth
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:37 pm 
Offline
Manchurian Mod
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:40 am
Posts: 5866
Interesting. Mail delivery is one of the few purviews that the federal government was actually intended to have.

_________________
Buckle your pants or they might fall down.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Kaffis Mark V
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
On the chant thing, I suspect it's most likely that there was a mix initially, and that's why it's ambiguous. Choosing to highlight that clip and subtitle it the way they did definitely implicates MSNBC in choosing to portray a narrative where Romney's so boring and lousy that even his rally attendees would rather support his running mate, though.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rynar
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:15 am 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Aethien wrote:
Corolinth wrote:
On the topic of paying taxes vs not paying taxes, you must also consider where money comes from.

Consider, for example, a public school teacher. On paper, it looks like they pay taxes. All of their income is received from tax dollars, so all they're really doing is deferring a part of their total compensation until the next year. Postal workers are another example. On paper, they appear to pay taxes. They are paid in tax dollars.

Any group that is paid out of the public coffers does not pay taxes. We simply have them fill out IRS returns so that they can feel like they've paid their dues. Make no mistake, these groups do not pay taxes. They receive taxes. Presumably, they receive tax money for performing some valuable function, so they do make a contribution to society, but it is not monetary.

Just to clarify, the Postal Service no longer receives a significant portion of its income from the government:

Wikipedia wrote:
The USPS has not directly received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s with the minor exception of subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters.


Its Annual Report shows a $3B contribution from the US Government, out of an operating revenue of $65B. Maybe you're thinking of some other way to categorize how they get paid - guaranteed monopoly on first-class mail, etc. - but the USPS is no longer a taxpayer-funded organization, for the most part.

It absolutely is tax-payer funded, but the taxes that fund it are largely voluntary rather than income based. It's a government created, managed, and imposed monopoly on service just as national defense is a government created, managed, and imposed monopoly on service. Just because the coinciding tax is consumption based rather than confiscatory doesn't mean it's not a tax.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
RangerDave
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:36 am
Posts: 3083
How is the post office a government-imposed monopoly? Is there legislation prohibiting other carriers (e.g. Fed Ex and UPS) from offering certain competing services or something?
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Mookhow
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:12 pm 
Offline
God of the IRC
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:35 pm
Posts: 3041
Location: The United States of DESU
Private companies can deliver parcels, but they are forbidden from delivering mail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... oly_status
Wikipedia wrote:
Article I, section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution grants Congress the power to establish post offices and post roads, which has been interpreted as a de facto Congressional monopoly over the delivery of mail. Accordingly, no other system for delivering mail – public or private – can be established, absent Congress's consent.

_________________
Image
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
RangerDave
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:36 am
Posts: 3083
Huh. I had no idea. I figured Fed Ex et. al just opted not to bother with standard mail delivery because it wasn't profitable.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rorinthas
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:39 pm 
Offline
pbp Hack
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:45 pm
Posts: 7585
The irony... it burns.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Aizle
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Rorinthas wrote:
The irony... it burns.


Shut down the mail system and see how many businesses die or how much product prices go up. Mail is part of the infrastructure that allows a fertile business environment, much like roads or other public services.

Profit isn't the only measure of a successful or worthwhile endeavor.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rorinthas
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:35 pm 
Offline
pbp Hack
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:45 pm
Posts: 7585
I'm all for the mail as it stands, though I think we could do without Saturday delivery if it helps them balance their books.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Aizle
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Rorinthas wrote:
I'm all for the mail as it stands, though I think we could do without Saturday delivery if it helps them balance their books.


Yup, I agree. I don't really see the value in Saturday delivery, at least for residential service. I could maybe see it for businesses, but not sure if keeping businesses would be feasible or not.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:06 pm 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Or we could make congress stop forcing the post office to prepay their retirement account by 75 years. It seems excessive to fund a pension fund for people who haven't been born yet.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Slythe
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:28 pm
Posts: 476
Location: The 10th circle
Hopwin wrote:
Or we could make congress stop forcing the post office to prepay their retirement account by 75 years. It seems excessive to fund a pension fund for people who haven't been born yet.


^ ding ding. This is one of the main reasons the post office is in such poor fiscal shape, that not many people know about. Congress uses it as a lender.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:00 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Slythe wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Or we could make congress stop forcing the post office to prepay their retirement account by 75 years. It seems excessive to fund a pension fund for people who haven't been born yet.


^ ding ding. This is one of the main reasons the post office is in such poor fiscal shape, that not many people know about. Congress uses it as a lender.

Shhhh!

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Nitefox
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:17 am 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
Just to clear up the MSNBC tape doctoring thing...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/mo ... -that-didn

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/26/us/po ... .html?_r=0


Quote:
After Mr. Ryan whooped up the crowd in Vandalia on Tuesday, Mr. Romney moved to the front of the stage. As the crowd began chanting “Romney! Romney!” he cut them off.“Wait a second,” Mr. Romney said, instructing the audience to cheer for “Romney-Ryan! Romney-Ryan!” They did.

“There we go,” he said, pleased.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
DFK!
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:22 pm 
Offline
The Game Master.
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:01 pm
Posts: 3729
Aizle wrote:
Profit isn't the only measure of a successful or worthwhile endeavor.


Yes it is. What other metric would you suggest that actually allows such a hypothetical endeavor to continue to function?

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
RangerDave
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:36 am
Posts: 3083
Elections. Voters elect representatives and/or pass referenda with an agenda that includes the relevant endeavor and the tax levies necessary to pay for it.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Diamondeye
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:51 am 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
DFK! wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Profit isn't the only measure of a successful or worthwhile endeavor.


Yes it is. What other metric would you suggest that actually allows such a hypothetical endeavor to continue to function?


If I set out to kick your *** at Warhammer 40K, would you suggest that the fact that I made no money on it meant I failed?

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
DFK!
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:37 am 
Offline
The Game Master.
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:01 pm
Posts: 3729
Diamondeye wrote:
DFK! wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Profit isn't the only measure of a successful or worthwhile endeavor.


Yes it is. What other metric would you suggest that actually allows such a hypothetical endeavor to continue to function?


If I set out to kick your *** at Warhammer 40K, would you suggest that the fact that I made no money on it meant I failed?


Ah, but every game played or hour spent on a durable product such as miniatures is return on the original expenditure. Entertainment hours have value. Leisure time has value.

Now, how we all value it is different, but even leisure activities come down to a mental P&L tabulation.

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
DFK!
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:39 am 
Offline
The Game Master.
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:01 pm
Posts: 3729
RangerDave wrote:
Elections. Voters elect representatives and/or pass referenda with an agenda that includes the relevant endeavor and the tax levies necessary to pay for it.


Except that they vote for people and laws with a profit motive in mind. They may not think of it explicitly, but they consider "who/what will benefit me most?" That's profit motive.

Everything is profit motive.

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
TheRiov
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:01 am 
Offline
Rihannsu Commander

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:31 am
Posts: 4709
Location: Cincinnati OH
What exactly is my profit motive for voting for humanitarian aid for Bora Bora?
What is my profit motive for voting for marriage equality?
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:32 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
TheRiov wrote:
What exactly is my profit motive for voting for humanitarian aid for Bora Bora?
What is my profit motive for voting for marriage equality?

Moral superiority.

Or the biological rewards of altruism.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
TheRiov
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:35 am 
Offline
Rihannsu Commander

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:31 am
Posts: 4709
Location: Cincinnati OH
So your argument is that there are no unselfish acts?
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
FarSky
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:36 am 
Offline
Near Ground
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 6782
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Jeebus, we've turned the thread into a 'Friends' episode
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Müs
 Post subject: Re: Ouch.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:38 am 
Offline
I got nothin.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!
FarSky wrote:
Jeebus, we've turned the thread into a 'Friends' episode


"The One Where They Argue Politics"

_________________
Image
Holy shitsnacks!
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:53 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
TheRiov wrote:
So your argument is that there are no unselfish acts?

I am making no argument whatsoever. Take it up with biologists.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 3 of 4
  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Board index » The Glade » Hellfire

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 263 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group