Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
No. This case was the result of a lawsuit, not a prosecution under law. The defendant was found not to be liable by the appeals judges on the simple basis of being "oblivious". That sets a very high and difficult bar to sue someone, and does not in any way establish that it's illegal to do so. The court only held that someone could be civilly liable for that action, but by finding that a person who was oblivious to whether the person was driving was not liable they set a fairly high bar to cross for a successful suit.
I did not say that it was illegal. However, liability for sending texts to a driver can only result from some basic negligence. Negligence requires knowledge that it's not ok to text and drive, which goes back to the law against it. Now, in this case, she passed the "requires knowledge" test, in that they could not demonstrate she knew he was driving. Even so, the decision, which establishes the possibility of liability, stems from the law outlawing texting while driving, and is basically a slippery slope decision.
Yes, you did say it was illegal, even if you didn't intend to. You said the law prohibits "texting while driving", then went in your next phrase to say "and this has slipped to now potentially allow liability for people not driving." Liability can mean either criminal liability (guilt) or civil liability, and while civil liability is what is more commonly meant, the fact that you were talking about an illegal action in the previous phrase indicated that you were talking about criminal liability - i.e. that the action was illegal.
Furthermore, negligence requires that an action be a failure to exercise the care that a reasonably prudent person would exercise in like circumstances, not "knowledge that it's not ok", whatever that means. The decision is not a slippery slope; a person of ordinary care should know that if they text someone, there is a high probability that person will
give their attention to the text. We're conditioned to respond to telephones when they alert us from a young age, and that includes texting in recent years.
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You even admit that. It has to be "knowingly" done. "Knowingly" is much harder to establish that "recklessly" or "negligently". Your silly pink and green house example would never work; it would be impossible to prove that the person painting the house specifically distracted a particular driver at a particular point in time, which would be needed to establish "knowing" action.
Fair enough on the "silly" example, but surely you get my point - there's a whole lot of things along the side of the road that are CLEARLY INTENDED to attract the attention of the driver.
They are intended to attract the attention of people in general, not drivers, specifically, and the case established that you knowingly have to text (i.e. distract) a driver - that means a specific driver who actually caused an accident, not that you did something intended to attract attention in general and it just so happened that a driver was the one who caught it and then wrecked. That's what "knowing" means, legally - knowing is a culpable mental state and has a specific legal meaning.
This is why slippery slope is a fallacy. If what you said actually were to happen, it would be practically impossible to move about on the roads since any accident could be blamed on practically anything that happened in sight of a road. Telling people
not to text someone who is driving, on the other hand, is narrow, highly specific, and doesn't interfere with general use of the roadways and their environs. This is why it would never be extrapolated in that fashion; the people that make the law and apply the law don't want things to end up that way any more than you do.
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Try to at least stick to how the legal system actually works if you're going to complain about laws and rulings.
Read my posts and don't nitpick.
Don't tell people to read your posts or not nitpick. Make arguments that make sense. You're the one always ***** that if someone doesn't understand you, its on the speaker to clarify what they mean, so quit acting like a self-important douchebag. You're the one nitpicking your own vague posting to claim I "didn't read it."