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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:53 am 
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Hannibal wrote:
I disagree. Both Democrats and Republicans, at all levels of government, actively work to implement rule changes that supress any canidate that doesnt have their backing.


No they don't.

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Changing signature requirements, changing filing requirements, even up to the shenanigans in Ohio recently.


Assertions of "shennanigans" are not evidence. None of the rest have any logical connection to surpressing any candidate. By that standard, any election rule or qualification at all could be said to "suppress" candidates. It isn't like unrealistic candidates would get elected if only they could run; they don't have positions that appeal broadly in the first place.

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Third parties are a real threat to establishment candidates, because they eat the margins the two parties are different in. Id say 6% of voters decide the election. 47% are going to stick with the sports team mentality. If a third party takes that margin, then both R and D have to take hard turns to ensure their core turns out in force. That was evident in the last presidential election.


I hate to break it to you, but this theory pretty much entirely disproves your entire complaint, and establiushes that these candidates are not electable. They only eat margins; they can't actually win except in rare circumstances because the third parties don't have positions that enough people actually want. Either they take away from the base, or they try to slide into the moderate middle, but either way they simply don't appeal to enough people.

Furthermore, when they eat the margins from one party, they increase the chance of the other party getting elected. It's therefore to the advantage of either party to encourage third parties that absorb votes from the other party more than their own. Collusion between the parties to prevent third parties from gaining appeal wouldn't serve any purpose; it would be a double-edged sword.

And once again, we're completely off topic because people have to go off into complaining about the fact that A) people have the gall to vote based on their own interests, and not for Obama just because he obviously is the best guy for them in the opinion of people who know nothing about their life situation or B) that their dream candidates don't have enough broad-based appeal to win.

Back to the topic:

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Simferopol, Ukraine (CNN) -- The standoff in Ukraine's Crimea region is a strange one, where soldiers appear to be standing around amid an air of calm. They wear no military insignia, but there's little doubt about who they are.

Russian forces "have complete operational control of the Crimean peninsula," a senior U.S. administration official told CNN, with estimates of 6,000 Russian ground and naval forces in the region. A law is being considered in the Russian parliament that would allow Crimea to be annexed, according to the parliament's website.

Armed men are blocking 10 Ukrainian military and naval bases in Crimea, the newly appointed naval commander of Ukraine, Rear Adm. Serhei Gayduk, told a Ukrainian TV station.

Many ethnic Russians live in Crimea, where support for Russia is strong. Part of Russia's navy -- the Russian Black Sea Fleet -- has a base in Crimea's city of Sevastopol that has been there for 230 years.

In Crimea's capital, Simferopol, soldiers were circling government buildings and patrolling some streets, but their presence did not feel invasive, CNN correspondent Diana Magnay reported Monday.
Crisis escalating in Ukraine
EU Russian Ambassador speaks on Ukraine
Tymoshenko pleads for help to save Crimea

It appears that there is a "war of information" in the region "between those who watch Russian state TV and those who are getting their news from the West, none of them listening to the calls from Kiev for unity in this country," Magnay reported.

It has been, Magnay says, "a very low-key kind of invasion."

Crimea's First Vice-Premier Rustam Temirgaliyev also described the situation as quiet, Russian state news agency ITAR Tass reported on Monday.

"Despite hysteria in Ukraine's central media, the situation on the peninsula remains absolutely calm. No conflicts have flared up in Crimea over the past 24 hours. Crimea has preserved its inter-ethnic peace," Temirgaliyev said, according to ITAR Tass.

The calmness contrasts with reports that Russia has issued an ultimatum to Ukrainian forces in Crimea to clear out by 5 a.m. Tuesday or face a "military storm," according to a report from Russian state-run news agency Interfax, citing a Ukrainian Defense Ministry source.

Additionally, Ukrainian Defense Ministry spokesman Vladislav Seleznyov told CNN that Russia's Black Sea fleet commander went aboard a blocked Ukrainian warship in Sevastopol harbor on Monday and issued an ultimatum: Swear allegiance to the new Crimean authorities, surrender, or face an attack. The Russian commander, Aleksandr Vitko, did not mention a deadline, Seleznyov said.

But Russia denies plans to storm the Ukrainian military units in Crimea, Interfax said, citing an unidentified spokesman for the Russian Black Sea Fleet. Interfax said the spokesman called these reports "utter rubbish."

"We have gotten used to hearing claims that we are conducting military operations against our Ukrainian colleagues," said the spokesman, adding, "Attempts to set us against each other will fail."

Meanwhile, Seleznyov told CNN that up to 12 trucks full of Russian troops have crossed into the eastern Crimean city of Kerch from Russia.

Additionally, Ukrainian Border Service Assistant Chief Col. Sergei Astakhov described Russian troop movements by ferry from Russia across the Strait of Kerch in a phone conversation.

Astakhov said the first two ferries carrying armed men were navigating toward the ferry dock and border post in Kerch. As the ferries approached the port, 10 heavily armed troops from the Russian Black Sea Fleet attacked the border post from land and used force to overwhelm the Ukrainian border guards, Astakhov said.

The account of the attack contradicts the calm scene that CNN correspondents had observed in Kerch earlier Monday. Close to 100 men in green uniforms, carrying weapons such as AK-47s, lingered outside the main entrance to the ferry port Monday. Soldiers around there were not masked -- they were relaxing, eating and drinking tea, CNN's Ben Wedeman reported.

Half the soldiers were sitting around and waiting, with some standing and others spaced out every 100 meters. They appeared not to be on high alert. One Ukrainian soldier with an insignia remained by the entrance where cars enter the ferry port.

Three six-wheeled military trucks, used for transporting troops, have black license plates indicative of Russian forces based in Crimea, per the agreement between Ukraine and Russia.

An officer who wished to be identified only as Alexander, wearing a hat with the Russian Black Sea Fleet insignia, told CNN he and others from the Sevastopol naval base had been deployed outside the ferry port since Saturday. If they weren't there, he said, "there would be a civil war in Ukraine."

Alexander said the troops are there to protect their Ukrainian brothers from those who seized power locally in Kiev. Ukrainians gave them places to stay and shower, and locals have brought them food, he said.

The troops will stay in Kerch until Crimea decides what it wants to do, Alexander said.

Crimea is the last major stronghold of opposition to the new political leadership in Ukraine. The country's President, Viktor Yanukovych, was ousted February 22 after months of anti-government protests reached a bloody climax. Street clashes between demonstrators and security forces left more than 80 dead.


Note the underlined: First, Russia relies on this area for support of it's Black Sea fleet. Unlike their northern ports, it's always ice-free. You can review the history of the cold war for the attendant issues for the Russian naval situation; politics have changed but geography hasn't.

Second, like the invasion of Georgia, this is based on ethnicity. There's a strong parallel to the fate of Czechoslovakia prior to WWII; taking part of a country based on the presence of people there that are ethnically similar to the taking nation.

The important differences are: The west didn't negotiate away Ukraine's territory without their consent, Putin isn't Hitler and probably does not have designs on Poland, Norway, or France, and most importantly, NATO created precedent for this by allowing Kosovo to split off rather than simply making Serbia behave itself. We have encouraged ethnic balkaniztion in the actual balkans, and now elsewhere, and now we're faced with the fact that country too strong for us to force it to sto might do the same thing.

Ukrainian ethnic/linguistic divisions discussed here

The era of "conquest is always unacceptable" is about to be over. Russia knows what we're willing to go to war over, and what we're not, and there is no massive cold war arsenal of nukes to make the risk of being wrong unacceptable; nuclear arsenals have shrunk to where nuclear war is survivable and winnable. They know that Ukraine has absolutely no chance of defeating them, and that the area they're targeting is one sympathetic to them. They chose their target well. "International law" is not going to help Ukraine. China is not going to help Ukraine. NATO is going to do nothing but talk, and NATO shouldn't go to war to preserve the Crimea from Moscow. It's a wake-up call. Law extends only as high as the ability to enforce it.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:59 am 
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Amanar wrote:
Müs wrote:
Basically. If you can't defend yourself, You maybe don't deserve to be sovereign.

Its not our business.

The problem with this argument is Ukraine could defend themselves. They had nuclear weapons (a lot of them), but they were convinced to give them up in the name of nuclear non-proliferation. In return, we promised to help them ensure their security from any invaders. Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances.

So yeah, I think it is our problem. We made it our problem when we signed that treaty. I don't think we should ignore treaties we sign because it would be inconvenient for us and we're tired of intervening in world affairs. Obviously we don't want to start WW3, so I'm sure we'll do whatever we can to settle this diplomatically. But we can't just ignore it and say "not our problem," because it is our problem.


Unfortunately, that ship sailed a long time ago, and they don't have the ability to defend hemselves now, having made no effort whatsoever to gain new means of self defense byond a token. Even back then, they did not necessarily have the ability to effectively employ the nuclear weapons they had and were appallingly susceptible to a disarming first strike due to their close range to Russian bases and launchers.

This is part of the reason the US went away from FB-111s based in England and the UK went away from land based bombers - Russian weapons can be there in just a few minutes; not enough time for the bombers to scramble and get outside the blast radius. Patterns extending around the bases could make it harder still. Ukraine is worse off; a surprise attack could easily annihilate almost any nuclear force they did have before it could launch. Ukraine, in its infancy as a nation, did not possess any of the systems or knowledge of how to implement the kind of early warning and coordinated planning they would need to be able to effectively retaliate. No one did; the US and UK could not solve that problem, and Ukraine had it worse, and would be essentially starting from scratch with no defensive planners or experts with any experience at all in dealing with their situation because now the enemy was next door instead of the other side of the planet.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:12 am 
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Yes, they may not be an absolute defense against any invasion, but they make the cost of invasion or aggressive actions like what Russia is doing now a lot greater. Do you really think Russia would be occupying parts of Ukraine right now if they had nuclear weapons? I don't think they would bomb their entire nuclear arsenal just so they can occupy Crimea.

I agree with your assessment of the situation for the most part, in that Ukraine should have focused more on defense in the absence of a nuclear arsenal (although that's easy to say in retrospect). But I think if the US just lets Ukraine get bullied by Russia here, then the nuclear non-proliferation movement will suffer.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:15 am 
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Amanar wrote:
The problem with this argument is Ukraine could defend themselves. They had nuclear weapons (a lot of them), but they were convinced to give them up in the name of nuclear non-proliferation. In return, we promised to help them ensure their security from any invaders. Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances.

Apparently those security guarantees don't actually obligate us to do anything meaningful:

Quite a bit of commentary on the Ukraine crisis refers to Western “security guarantees” made in exchange for Kyiv’s de-nuclearization two decades ago. That analysis, alas, is not informed by the facts. While Russia is almost certainly in violation of both the spirit and letter of The Budapest Memorandums on Security Assurances of 1994, the other signatories have no obligation whatsoever to do anything about it.

The most applicable provision: “The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.” Russia is rather clearly in violation of this, notwithstanding Putin’s claims of self-defense.

Likewise, the parties “reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.” Emphasis mine. So, unless Russia uses nuclear weapons, the other signatories have no obligation to do anything. If Russia were, unfathomably, to threaten or use nukes, then the other parties would be obligated to take the matter to the Security Council—where Russia would promptly veto any proposed action.

To summarize: The only security commitment given to Ukraine by the signatories is to make whole its nuclear deterrent against nuclear attack. The fact that nuclear weapons possession might also deter a conventional attack, while possibly true, is explicitly not addressed. Indeed, since the UN Security Council is going to actually take up the matter—for all the good that’ll do (see above)—the other parties are actually going above and beyond the call of duty.


That said, I do agree that this whole situation is likely to make the non-proliferation argument rather less persuasive. However, given the examples of Israel and North Korea, I'd say the non-proliferation argument was already fairly weak for countries seeking nukes as a deterrent to invasion.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:10 am 
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Would it make any difference at all if Ukraine had a bigger military? Seeing that it is a given that the West is not going to intervene militarily on their behalf regardless, it doesn't really matter if they had spent ten times as much on their military, they still would have had no chance of actually beating a Russian invasion.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:22 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
Would it make any difference at all if Ukraine had a bigger military? Seeing that it is a given that the West is not going to intervene militarily on their behalf regardless, it doesn't really matter if they had spent ten times as much on their military, they still would have had no chance of actually beating a Russian invasion.


Yes, it would.

They don't need a big enough army to beat a russian invasion. They only need a big enough army to make it too costly for Russia to invade. Russia hasn't lost a soldier yet to this "invasion." The Ukraine hasn't even put up any resistance, crimea was annexed without conflict. If Russia thought it would actually have become a shooting match that might involve losses on their side, they probably wouldn't have done it.

Let's put this into perspective:

Canada has about 33 million people. We're generally regarded as not spending enough on our military (although that was a US request back in the cold war era). We spend 23 billion dollars a year on our military budget.

Compare:

The Ukraine has 44 million people. They spend 5 billion dollars a year on their military budget.

If Canada neighbored the Ukraine, we could annex them as easily as Russia did.

Despite having 133% the population of Canada, the Ukraine has a military approximately 22% the power of Canada's.

Now, the catch-22 here is you can't blame the current ukrainian administration for this: The low military spending of the Ukraine is what made the recent revolution Russia is so concerned about possible. If Ukraine had been spending more on their military, they probably never would have lost control of the country to begin with. The current administration wouldn't be in power to have been invaded by Russia. So either way - this revolution was doomed.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:07 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
Apparently those security guarantees don't actually obligate us to do anything meaningful:


I understand that. I'm not trying to argue that we're obligated to defend them militarily, or even that we should. I'm just trying to address the belief many expressed in this thread that this is none of our business and we should just stay out of it altogether. Russia signed a treaty with us and they broke it. I don't think that should be ignored.

I also disagree with the idea that we should leave Europe on its own. We need allies. The relative influence of the west is diminishing, we're a small part of the world when you look at the numbers. And personally, I like western democracy, and much prefer it to the politics of China, Russia, and India. So if there's a chance to pull Ukraine over to our "side", I think that's a worthy goal in itself. But regardless of what happens in Ukraine, having a good relationship with the EU is a good thing.

It's interesting because most of you guys seem to be getting more isolationist over the years, and I used to be pretty isolationist, but I'm apparently moving in the other direction.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:07 pm 
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DE you have no idea about what you're talking about when it comes to the two major parties working to keep other parties or independents out.

None at all.

Hannibal stated several "Changing signature requirements, changing filing requirements" which you entirely ignored and then dismissed his statement.

You're grossly and admantaly ignorant of how to get into office and the differential in almost all states between the two parties and any others.

Google ballot access, sit back, and learn. Then come back here and apologize.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:16 pm 
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Amanar wrote:
And personally, I like western democracy, and much prefer it to the politics of China, Russia, and India.

If you'd only said China, I'd agree. I'm puzzled at the inclusion of Russia and India, however.

Russia's Presidential Republic has somewhat similar structure to that of the USA, and is a multi-party system. India's government is patterned after Great Britain's, and therefore is almost identical to Canada's, except that instead of a monarch they actually have an elected President.

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How to not be annexed by neighboring countries:

1) Don't randomly have revolutions

2) Have a large, well-equipped and loyal military that is combat ready

3) Make military alliances such as becoming a member of NATO


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:23 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Canada has about 33 million people. We're generally regarded as not spending enough on our military (although that was a US request back in the cold war era). We spend 23 billion dollars a year on our military budget.

Compare:

The Ukraine has 44 million people. They spend 5 billion dollars a year on their military budget.

If Canada neighbored the Ukraine, we could annex them as easily as Russia did.

Despite having 133% the population of Canada, the Ukraine has a military approximately 22% the power of Canada's.


I don't think you can just equate military expenditures and power like that. It's a lot cheaper to maintain a military in Ukraine than in Canada. Just at a quick glance, Ukraine has 1.5x as many active duty military personnel than Canada. Both spend about the same percent of their GDP on the military.

Using your logic, the US could easily annex Russia and China since we outspend them several times over. But I think we know that's not feasible in a conventional sense.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:36 pm 
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Talya wrote:
If you'd only said China, I'd agree. I'm puzzled at the inclusion of Russia and India, however.

Russia's Presidential Republic has somewhat similar structure to that of the USA, and is a multi-party system. India's government is patterned after Great Britain's, and therefore is almost identical to Canada's, except that instead of a monarch they actually have an elected President.

I don't simply mean political structure, I'm referring to political philosophies and culture too. Things like freedom of speech, a government beholden to the people, individualism, rationalism, etc. Basically, western philosophy. It's pretty cool and I don't want it to die out.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:52 pm 
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And here is a lawsuit on some of the inherent biases the two parties have put in place in the electoral process.

http://ivn.us/2014/03/05/lawsuit-filed- ... ampaign=EP

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:00 pm 
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Amanar wrote:
Things like freedom of speech,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Ass ... n_war_logs

(and, just to be fair and unbiased)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_Canada


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a government beholden to the people,


I haven't seen that out of the US government for a long, long time.

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individualism,


And yet, Socialism is the opposite of Individualism, and the definition of how socialist a government is, is how much of the GDP they spend. Do the math.


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rationalism,


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nigel-bar ... 90433.html

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etc. Basically, western philosophy. It's pretty cool and I don't want it to die out.


It's a nice idea, and I know what you mean. Unfortunately, I'm not even sure that philosophy ever really existed in an influential way. If it did, it's dying anyway.

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You're looking way too closely at things. All the "socialist" nations of Western Europe are still highly individualistic. Rationalism is still a huge influence, even among religious people in the US. Freedom of speech doesn't have to be absolute to be a part of our political philosophy. And this idea that western philosophy is dead is just absurd.

Anyway, if you want to argue that the US has as much in common with China and Russia than with say, Germany and France, go ahead. But if you just don't like my random examples of what I consider "western philosophy," then you can just assume for my argument that by "western philosophy" I mean everything that we (Canada and the US) have in common with Western Europe.


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This invasion is definitely strange. Both sides clearly know how quickly things could go to hell, and are too close to one another to really be ready to kill the other.

It's like if Texas invaded Oklahoma.


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Amanar wrote:
Freedom of speech doesn't have to be absolute to be a part of our political philosophy.


There's nothing said about "absolute" in what I said.

In Canada and the USA you have free speech as long as the government doesn't dislike what you say enough to declare it criminal. Julian Assange has been hunted on various charges since wikileaks, and he didn't break any laws while doing it. Furthermore, he is not an American nor was he ever on American soil. Then there's various aspects of copyright and other ridiculous laws -- "Freedom of Speech" is dead.

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Anyway, if you want to argue that the US has as much in common with China and Russia than with say, Germany and France, go ahead. But if you just don't like my random examples of what I consider "western philosophy," then you can just assume for my argument that by "western philosophy" I mean everything that we (Canada and the US) have in common with Western Europe.



Again, I separated china out from the others, but the USA does have much more in common with Russia as it does with Germany and France. Russia is an imperialistic republic that sticks its nose into international affairs where it isn't wanted, makes unilateral decisions against the wishes of its "allies" in the international community, and where stupid irrelevant religious intolerance helps keep the people focused on issues that don't really matter to the fed continuing to maintain its empire. Oh, instead of russian criminal syndicates controlling large swaths of the economy, we have criminal corporations doing the same crap, but the biggest differences at this point are the cyrillic alphabet instead of the latin one.

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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
It's like if Texas invaded Oklahoma.

^ I am 95% sure that'd be bloody as all hell.

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Hopwin wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
It's like if Texas invaded Oklahoma.

^ I am 95% sure that'd be bloody as all hell.

And that's why they don't.

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The invasion was a fake and a fraud. The local militia wore Soviet Surplus uniforms that look a lot like Russian uniforms, but no insignia. The Russians may have supplied he uniforms, some training, some old weapons, but they seem to have kept their people out of there.

Why? My guess is that it was a feint to get the west to overreact. Of course the Russians are already on a Naval base in Crimea, and from what I can tell stayed there.

Putin is playing with the West. He seems to be having a good time.

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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
This invasion is definitely strange. Both sides clearly know how quickly things could go to hell, and are too close to one another to really be ready to kill the other.

It's like if Texas invaded Oklahoma.


Nah, its more like if Texas invaded Mexico. Texas and OK are too ideologically close to invade each other.

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Amanar wrote:
Yes, they may not be an absolute defense against any invasion, but they make the cost of invasion or aggressive actions like what Russia is doing now a lot greater. Do you really think Russia would be occupying parts of Ukraine right now if they had nuclear weapons? I don't think they would bomb their entire nuclear arsenal just so they can occupy Crimea.


They probably wouldn't, but they might rely on the fact that Ukraine really could not afford to use its nuclear weapons just to prevent that occupation. If Ukraine struck first, Russia could easily retaliate with overwhelming force

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I agree with your assessment of the situation for the most part, in that Ukraine should have focused more on defense in the absence of a nuclear arsenal (although that's easy to say in retrospect). But I think if the US just lets Ukraine get bullied by Russia here, then the nuclear non-proliferation movement will suffer.


Well, **** the nuclear non-proliferation movement. It's really not a good thing. We thought limiting battleship construction would be a good idea after WWI; not only did it fail to prevent the war or German re-armament (who weren't party to the treaty anyhow) the Japanese just blatantly cheated on it and built the Yamatos. Furthermore, it turned out to be worthless in the face of the reality of the aircraft carrier anyhow.

With few exceptions (North Korea) preventing countries from getting nukes if they want them isn't a good idea. Nukes tend to limit a country strategically because they now are a player with everyone else that has them. No one wants to go over the line. All the arms limitations we've negotiated over the last 40 years have bought us absolutely nothing other than pissing away our technological edge over and over.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:21 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
Would it make any difference at all if Ukraine had a bigger military? Seeing that it is a given that the West is not going to intervene militarily on their behalf regardless, it doesn't really matter if they had spent ten times as much on their military, they still would have had no chance of actually beating a Russian invasion.


They could certainly make it costly enough that Russia would have to consider its value very carefully. They should have been laying the groundwork for assistance way back, as well, along with any spending.

People piss and moan (not entirely without merit) about how hard it would be to invade Iran. Ukraine could have made it damn hard for Russia too if they were not off in "but people don't invade anymore!!" la-la land.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:25 pm 
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Amanar wrote:
Talya wrote:
Canada has about 33 million people. We're generally regarded as not spending enough on our military (although that was a US request back in the cold war era). We spend 23 billion dollars a year on our military budget.

Compare:

The Ukraine has 44 million people. They spend 5 billion dollars a year on their military budget.

If Canada neighbored the Ukraine, we could annex them as easily as Russia did.

Despite having 133% the population of Canada, the Ukraine has a military approximately 22% the power of Canada's.


I don't think you can just equate military expenditures and power like that. It's a lot cheaper to maintain a military in Ukraine than in Canada. Just at a quick glance, Ukraine has 1.5x as many active duty military personnel than Canada. Both spend about the same percent of their GDP on the military.

Using your logic, the US could easily annex Russia and China since we outspend them several times over. But I think we know that's not feasible in a conventional sense.


That's why she caveated it as "If we were next to them." Russia, Canada, the U.S. and China are special cases because of their physical size, and in China's case becuase its population is so **** huge compared to everyone else.

In a case like "Canada vs. Ukraine" though, Taly is right. Canada could basically steamroll them. Canadian troops are far better trained and equipped, and better paid. Canadian commanders benefit from being a part of NATO and training with other top-notch military establishements. They are among the world's best, despite their small size.

That's what that money buys you. Yes, more spending does mean more capability as a rule of thumb. There are exceptions, like Italy, that piss away almost their entire budget on benefits and pay, but those are exceptions.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:26 pm 
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Micheal wrote:
The invasion was a fake and a fraud. The local militia wore Soviet Surplus uniforms that look a lot like Russian uniforms, but no insignia. The Russians may have supplied he uniforms, some training, some old weapons, but they seem to have kept their people out of there.

Why? My guess is that it was a feint to get the west to overreact. Of course the Russians are already on a Naval base in Crimea, and from what I can tell stayed there.

Putin is playing with the West. He seems to be having a good time.


No, it's because that area is heavily ethincally Russian and it makes it look like the will of the people. He is playing the west though, or moreover, making Obama's big-mouth pronouncements into the farce they are.

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