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 Post subject: Advertising on the Moon
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:10 am 
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The Dancing Cat
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http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/15/57197 ... on-in-2015

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Japanese beverage maker Otsuka is sending a 1 kilogram titanium can filled with powdered sports drink and children's dreams to the moon. The specially designed canister, which contains a shipment of Otsuka's Pocari Sweat powder, will mark a disturbing new frontier for humanity: the first commercial product delivered to another world for marketing purposes.

The canister will be carried to the lunar surface aboard the first planned private moon-landing mission, set to take place in October 2015. Otsuka says it hopes that the stunt will inspire young people to become astronauts, so they can travel the 380,000 kilometers (236,121 miles) to our closest celestial neighbor, crack open the can, and consume the powder inside.

The capsule will be conveyed to the moon by the Falcon 9 rocket. The Falcon 9, designed to be a potentially reusable means of space travel by Elon Musk's SpaceX, has already made three successful supply runs to the International Space Station, but the planned mission in October 2015 would be the first time one of its rockets has successfully provided propulsion to the moon. After the Falcon 9 rocket has ignited its second-stage boosters and completed a four-and-a-half day journey to the moon, the Pocari Sweat-branded canister will be deposited on the surface by private company Astrobotic Technology's "Griffin" lander.

Otsuka hopes someone will eventually be able to drink the moon powder

Pittsburgh-based Astrobotic Technology has more important reasons to be up on the moon than to leave a beverage can on its face. The company is angling to win Google's Lunar X prize, a $20-million bounty for the first company to land a device on the moon that can both travel 500 meters on the surface and transmit high-definition pictures back to Earth. Astrobotic's deal with Otsuka will provide them with funds to achieve this goal — the company reportedly charges upwards of half a million dollars for lunar delivery — but the mission to drop a can is somewhat ironic: Astrobotic is a company that develops technologies for clearing space trash.

In addition to Pocari Sweat, the titanium capsule will contain the wishes of children from across Asia, obtained from letters sent to the company and etched onto silver disks. The company says that when the project succeeds, Pocari Sweat, with its ambiguous citrus taste, will become the first beverage to reach the surface of the moon. The American makers of another powdered beverage, orange-flavored breakfast drink Tang, may take issue with that claim. NASA chose Tang to fly with its astronauts on a number of missions, but it's unclear if the powder ever actually made its way onto the lunar surface during the Apollo missions.


Alternate title: Japan is sending litter very far away.

Can we pass some kind of international accord against this crap?

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:52 am 
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That's awesome.


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 1:29 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/15/5719758/can-of-pocari-sweat-going-to-moon-in-2015

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{snipped quote}

Alternate title: Japan is sending litter very far away.

Can we pass some kind of international accord against this crap?


I kind of elt the same way about Curiosity. I know it was in the name of science, and a very cool thing, but the jettisoning of the ballast onto the surface struck me as just another example of humans trashing an environment. I dunno, maybe we'll go up and get them some day.

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:36 pm 
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I'm amazed that Falcon 9 is capable of reaching the moon. I thought it was an earth-orbit launcher.

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 3:02 pm 
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Curiosity was one thing. Exploration and probing etc.

This is sending trash to the moon for advertising. Despicable.

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 4:52 pm 
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Aethien:

For all we know or can prove, Mars is a barren planet devoid of life. With no habitats to destroy and no life put in danger, it would objectively seem a better place to dump things than our own planet is.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:35 am 
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From the perspective of any given species, all that exists is there for that species. Anything we can use to our benefit, we should use to our benefit. There is no inherent value to "nature" apart from that which humanity gives it, because all value judgements are something we create.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:40 am 
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Talya wrote:
From the perspective of any given species, all that exists is there for that species. Anything we can use to our benefit, we should use to our benefit. There is no inherent value to "nature" apart from that which humanity gives it, because all value judgements are something we create.


That's pretty much true. While keeping environments clean and sustainable for our own benefit makes perfect sense, keeping it that way just for it's own sake is rather silly. We don't have some obligation to the universe not to make use of it. It's just our natural behavior.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:53 am 
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As an aside, now i have this in my head:


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Talya wrote:
From the perspective of any given species, all that exists is there for that species. Anything we can use to our benefit, we should use to our benefit. There is no inherent value to "nature" apart from that which humanity gives it, because all value judgements are something we create.


That's pretty much true. While keeping environments clean and sustainable for our own benefit makes perfect sense, keeping it that way just for it's own sake is rather silly. We don't have some obligation to the universe not to make use of it. It's just our natural behavior.


Where other critters are involved, there is a natural tendency for humanity to feel some level of compassion. More importantly, in both the avoidance of harm to other critters and avoidance of harm to random environments (even lumps of rock devoid of life), there is potential future value in maintaining that environment untainted.

For example, say we were able to indiscriminately dump all our radioactive waste on Mars. Seems like a great idea, but we might find a better use for Mars someday.

So it's not silly, but only in the sense that there could be some future value we haven't discovered yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
For example, say we were able to indiscriminately dump all our radioactive waste on Mars. Seems like a great idea, but we might find a better use for Mars someday.

So it's not silly, but only in the sense that there could be some future value we haven't discovered yet.



If we truly wanted to dump waste, and had an economical way to get it out of Earth's gravity well, Jupiter would be the dumping ground of choice, not Mars.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:46 pm 
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My money would be on the sun.

All you really have to do is reduce an object's orbital velocity, and let it spiral in.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:49 pm 
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My gut reaction is we shouldn't dump heavy elements into the Sun. Now, i realize that the entire earth could probably sink into the sun without noticeably affecting it, but I've got this issue with allowing heavy elements to accumulate in Sol's core. Jupiter is already completely useless to us except as a large mass-shield, and radioactive as well.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:02 pm 
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That isn't actually a concern--the same processes that accumulated uranium and other radioactive isotopes in earth also are in the sun. Anything we do drop there would never make it to the core of the sun; heck it takes photons years to get out of the core.

Of bigger concern is safety of launches.


Also, I didn't do the math but apparently it takes almost as much delta-v to deorbit something into the sun as it does to escape the solar system.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:05 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
it takes photons years to get out of the core.


Something like 20,000 to 50,000 years, if I remember correctly.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:06 pm 
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Yeah I knew it was something huge, but I couldn't remember the actual value so just threw 'years' in there.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:07 pm 
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I believe heavy elements sink faster into the sun than photons get emitted, though. Photons get absorbed when they hit hydrogen atoms (and the sun is DENSE, so that's every few centimeters), then re-emitted in a random direction, often back toward the center of the sun.

Still, there's not enough heavy elements on this ball of iron to create a noticeable change in the sun... we think.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:17 pm 
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Its the free electrons that are the issue, not the nuclei IIRC. The whole reason there is a Cosmic Background Radiation at 3 degrees is that at 300,000 years after the big bang the temperature cools to ~3000 deg and all those free electrons bind to nuclei forming hydrogen/helium atoms. Suddenly all those photons bouncing around off electrons start moving in straight lines. Red-shift that, due to the expansion of the universe by 13 billion years & change and you get 3-degrees. Prior to that 3000 degree mark, the universe is essentially opaque to light--a huge plasma-mist.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 4:53 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Talya wrote:
From the perspective of any given species, all that exists is there for that species. Anything we can use to our benefit, we should use to our benefit. There is no inherent value to "nature" apart from that which humanity gives it, because all value judgements are something we create.


That's pretty much true. While keeping environments clean and sustainable for our own benefit makes perfect sense, keeping it that way just for it's own sake is rather silly. We don't have some obligation to the universe not to make use of it. It's just our natural behavior.


Where other critters are involved, there is a natural tendency for humanity to feel some level of compassion. More importantly, in both the avoidance of harm to other critters and avoidance of harm to random environments (even lumps of rock devoid of life), there is potential future value in maintaining that environment untainted.


Those things would fall under "our own benefit".

Quote:
For example, say we were able to indiscriminately dump all our radioactive waste on Mars. Seems like a great idea, but we might find a better use for Mars someday.

So it's not silly, but only in the sense that there could be some future value we haven't discovered yet.


By that argument, we could never make use of anything because it might have some even better use in the future that we haven't discovered, and even if we accept that argument, that wasn't what I was referring to. I was talking more about the generalized dismay at humans "trashing their environment" as if we have some objective obligation not to for its own sake.

In the case of Mars, we can obviously find much better places to dump radioactive waste than scattering it willy-nilly across that planet; space is really big, and there's plenty of other celestial bodies where radioactive waste could be disposed of. Even assuming we DID put it on Mars, taking basic precautions such as storing it in suitable containers, underground, and all in one place would make it highly unlikely that more than a very, very tiny portion of the planet would be affected.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 5:16 pm 
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at least someone has some interest in the moon or space in general beyond low orbit.

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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 3:22 pm 
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I'm pretty sure the money spent on depositing some Pocari Sweat on the moon and taking a picture of it there could be way better spent on a team and some focus testing to come up with a better name for your beverage than "Sweat."

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