The Glade 4.0

Learning self sufficiency/survival skills - Good
Teaching them to your children - Good

These are practical things, whether you hunt, camp, fish, or live in an area where any of these are practical. I'm not saying these are bad as Vindicarre seems to think I am.

OMG apocalypse! - OMG end of civilization as we know it! - OMG zombies, OMG Reavers!, OMG Wild West without white hats! - Save it for the video games, it isn't reality.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Yeah, I'm just going on memory here. I remember reports of scattered violence, but with at least as much neighborly assistance to offset it, with most people just kind of wandering around trying to figure out where to go and what to do.

And I remember roving gangs, mass looting, and rapes/assaults. And that was in the "good" areas.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

That's what I'm saying.

That's basic survivalism: having some skills, having a plan, having the basic tools to enact the plan and use your skills.

It's also synonymous with emergency preparedness.

Both are advocated by the government, non-governmental agencies such as the American Red Cross, and researched by a number of name universities. For you to have called it insane (which you did), is just stupid.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Absolutely, but I think Haiti's level of "civilized morality" was already pretty close to nil anyway. US culture, in contrast, is more firmly rooted in norms of legality, social contract, human rights, etc.

If you believe I can "make you feel" anything, it speaks volumes about the state of California's governmental counseling services. Your little ploy didn't work, so it would behoove you to drop it.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Vindicarre - A good writer can infuse the reader with a host of feelings. If you don't believe that to be true you aren't paying attention.

DFK! - Basic preparedness and readiness for a disaster is different from hysteria about an extended end to civilization as we know it.

Being willing and able to defend yourself is different from looking forward to the opportunity to kill people semi-legally.

I've believed for a long time that Elmo is unbalanced and in the second category in both sentences. I may be wrong. I don't think I am. My take on what Vindicarre seems to be trying to say is that there is no difference in the two and he is in Elmo's camp.

I'd rather none of us got killed doing something stupid because we think things are worse than they are and act stupidly because of it.

I also do not believe our civilization will fall because of any terrorist attack or natural disaster. Things may change, but the basic strength of civilization in we the people will survive. I see Elmarnieh and those like him as a danger to the continuation of society, but if they act as they proclaim, which I doubt, they will die quickly. Others will band together and take them out in self defense after they kill the first, maybe second or third, person that in their perception 'violated their rights'.

In a prolonged emergency, I'll die when the meds run out. I may or may not survive the survivalist lunatics.

But then, as Elmarnieh pointed out earlier, I don't know him. I may be misinterpreting what he is saying and he may be planning on going and hiding in his cave in the hills until civilization returns.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Zombie attack isn't much of a threat when the military, police, and even average citizens aren't inhibited by plot devices.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

That's what the zombies want you to think!

The term "survivalism" is, despite its technical meaning of emergency preparedness, tainted by by association with wingnuts who have been anticipating the end of civilization, often for decades on end.

Some of you out there are prepared for the eventuality of a Katrina-like scenario, or worse by making basic preparations for food, shelter, water, and of course defense. This does not put you in the same category as people who gleefully anticipate it thinking it will usher in a new era of minimal government where society consists of easily identified criminals, strict libertarians, and no one else. - or for that matter, anyone who thinks it will usher in socialist utopia where everyone magically wants to cooperate with their fellow man in all ways.

Quite frankly, if you're discussing what "would happen" in less that the equivalent of 2 pages of typing you're oversimplifying to the point of absurdity. Even if you devote a good effort (for a message board) to it, what "would happen" is pure conjecture based on assumptions which, depending on which of us is making them, range from the pretty reasonable to the completely asinine.

In any case, if your predictions about disaster magically line up to support your political beliefs, your objectivity is questionable. If the shoe fits, wear it. Reality is not going to force itself into anyone's preconceived notions.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Your point here is unclear, but I am inferring you expect a survival situation to occur to the average American within a few years? The chances of that are incredibly low. That's delusional thinking. Moreover, people without even the most basic skills usually survive these situations. And if your house collapses from an earthquake and kills you, survival skills won't help you there.

I might be incorrect here, but it seems like you lend extra credibility to the likelihood of disaster scenarios because it would give you a chance to hopefully enact your libertarian (read: anarchist) ideals.

edit:

It's very amusing how Elmo can only enforce his rights when there is no coherent civilization / effective law enforcement. An ideology that requires civilization to first fall apart seems pretty flawed to me.

Very Don Quixote-ish.

Clearly, you don't know what survivalism is, then. Stop listening to those attempting to paint it as nut-case right-wingers, or whoever you're listening to, about what it is.



I'm saying that I don't think people truly grasp how rapidly that is likely to happen, particularly in any emergency larger than something as localized as a regional emergency.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Imprecise statements cause people to back peddle and change the goalposts.
If you believe someone can make you feel anything, you missed out on some coursework.


Please, please, don't attempt to put "your take" on what I'm "trying to say";for someone to even intimate that what I wrote, as clear and concise as it was, would lead you to believe that I am "looking forward to the opportunity to kill people semi-legally" is frankly, beyond my ability to decipher.

I don't suppose you'd be willing to enlighten me as to how you reached that conclusion?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

That would actually be JMK.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville