The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 11:54 am

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » The Glade » Hellfire

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 3 of 4
  [ 97 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Taskiss
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Hopwin wrote:
What is an objective truth?

"Gravity" = "the attraction between massive objects" is an objective truth.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Aizle
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Hopwin wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Assume, for the purposes of this thread, that by fact I mean "something that is objectively true". Not all things that are objectively true are knowable.

ok... except for the last part. Truth requires knowledge. It's a chicken and egg thing, by definition. Subjective truths are truths sometimes, objective truths are truths all the time.

What is an objective truth? Everything we consider a fact is based upon a label or definition we have applied to it. Just because everyone agrees with the prevalent accepted notion doesn't make it fact. Even mathematics is not factual. The area within a circle is finite but we can't measure it accurately, we can only get close enough with pi.


Right, everything is an abstraction.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:34 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Gravity requires pi...

Image

Which means again, we can't actually measure it. We get close enough and quit.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
TheRiov
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:34 am 
Offline
Rihannsu Commander

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:31 am
Posts: 4709
Location: Cincinnati OH
I think my point is that for a disciplined mind, given the motivation, it would seem to be possible to create any moral framework, and thus in essense, no moral framework.
A flexible frame is no frame at all.

If thats the case then the first steps to modify ones moral framework by an act of will, create an everincreasing moral 'flexiblity' -- This is in essense a slipperly slope argument, that as soon as you loosen the frame a little, you doom yourself to eventual moral corruption. (from an initial point of view)

I donno. I'm still thinking on it.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rynar
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:35 am 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
I feel like half the people posting to this thread are playing the role of James Taggart.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
TheRiov
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:37 am 
Offline
Rihannsu Commander

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:31 am
Posts: 4709
Location: Cincinnati OH
The sole defense against which would seem to be an absolute moral framework that is self-supporting. As long as that holds, the disciplined mind will not chose to modify the framework. As soon as those first choices are made then further modifications become easier and easier--a downward spiral of corruption.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Taskiss
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Aizle wrote:
Right, everything is an abstraction.
Nope. Facts are verified and can be proved conceptually. If they can't then they're not facts... AND, to discuss "facts" requires one to adopt a rigid framework which precludes abstraction.

The consideration of the question "what is the sum of one plus one" requires a rigid definition framework and precludes "blue" as a factual answer.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.


Last edited by Taskiss on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Taskiss
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Hopwin wrote:
Gravity requires pi...

Image

Which means again, we can't actually measure it. We get close enough and quit.

Not true. All that gravity requires is mass. Your need to measure it doesn't define it.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rynar
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:40 am 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Consider that there are questions you do not know exist, and there are correct answers to those questions.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Taskiss
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Rynar wrote:
Consider that there are questions you do not know exist, and there are correct answers to those questions.

Facts are defined as "something verified and can be proved conceptually". To consider otherwise is to consider truths as falsehoods and at that point... and any further conversation would be random rambling as far as being relevant. I could offer "blue" as a response to all questions and I'd be "right", given the framework of the discussion.

Consider, "what came first, the chicken or the egg"? That very question was created in recognition that there are truths that are undiscoverable, so, there are no facts that can apply. One or the other MUST be true, but we'll never know.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.


Last edited by Taskiss on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rynar
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:48 am 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
What are they before they are verified and proven conceptually? Incorrect?

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Taskiss
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Rynar wrote:
What are they before they are verified and proven conceptually? Incorrect?

Unknown. There are facts and there are unknowns. The collapse of the unknown into a known births a fact.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.


Last edited by Taskiss on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rynar
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:51 am 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
But correct none the less?

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Taskiss
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Rynar wrote:
But correct none the less?

There are three states of reality, true, false and unknown.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Müs
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:57 am 
Offline
I got nothin.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!
Taskiss wrote:
Rynar wrote:
What are they before they are verified and proven conceptually? Incorrect?

Unknown. There are facts and there are unknowns. The collapse of the unknown into a known births a fact.

Image

_________________
Image
Holy shitsnacks!
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Taskiss
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Müs wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
Rynar wrote:
What are they before they are verified and proven conceptually? Incorrect?

Unknown. There are facts and there are unknowns. The collapse of the unknown into a known births a fact.

Image


EXACTLY!

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rynar
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:01 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Taskiss wrote:
Rynar wrote:
But correct none the less?

There are three states of reality, true, false and unknown.


Three states of perceived reality. Perceived reality has nothing to do with actual reality, however.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Taskiss
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Rynar wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
Rynar wrote:
But correct none the less?

There are three states of reality, true, false and unknown.


Three states of perceived reality. Perceived reality has nothing to do with actual reality, however.

There is only one reality.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Müs
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:06 pm 
Offline
I got nothin.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!
But does it or does it not have a spoon?

_________________
Image
Holy shitsnacks!
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Screeling
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:06 pm 
Offline
Deuce Master

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:45 am
Posts: 3099
Müs wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
Rynar wrote:
What are they before they are verified and proven conceptually? Incorrect?

Unknown. There are facts and there are unknowns. The collapse of the unknown into a known births a fact.

Image

That picture rules. Sadly, I'm the only one here at work that actually gets it.

_________________
The Dude abides.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Taskiss
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Müs wrote:
But does it or does it not have a spoon?

There are meta-realities in which, indeed, it has a spoon.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rynar
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:09 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Taskiss wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
There are three states of reality, true, false and unknown.


Three states of perceived reality. Perceived reality has nothing to do with actual reality, however.

There is only one reality.


Well, technically you don't actually know that.

Even if I were to consent to that for purposes of this thread, that reality has nothing to do with your perception of it.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Müs
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:09 pm 
Offline
I got nothin.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!
Well, my reality has a spoon in my drawer. Now, I just need to conceive some chocolate pudding to put it in.

_________________
Image
Holy shitsnacks!
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Taskiss
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Rynar wrote:
Well, technically you don't actually know that.

Technically, I do.

Cogito ergo sum

"I think, therefore I am!"

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rynar
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:13 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
You are only speaking of your perceptions, which may not be correct.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 3 of 4
  [ 97 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Board index » The Glade » Hellfire

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 73 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group