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Elmarnieh
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:08 pm 
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I personally recommend not seeing her outside the field of focus of a nice 1X16 scope but you know...

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Kaffis Mark V
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Müs wrote:
THROW MORE DOTS! MORE DOTS!

You got this man! Just hang in there!

Not to distract from Foamy here, but I just got the mental image of a skit of a psychologist coaching his or her patient as if leading a raid (in classic uptight raid leader form ala the well-known internet memes). It was hilarious.

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Foamy
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:38 pm 
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O! M! G!

Now there is a deep dark secret that my dad wants to tell me about the past that he thinks will excuse my mother from her behaviour.

I don't know what in hell he is talking about, but they are attempting to force themselves on us later tonight.

I just got done yelling at them on the phone and still they care not one ounce for what has been hurting me for years.

I want them to leave me alone and let me get counseling. They won't do it.

I predict tonight some type of irreparable damage to my life. I don't know what, but it will likely be of the most dire kind. Ties may be cut tonight. They won't let me work this out in front of a counselor, and they want to tell me some secret that somehow will magically heal everything.

I am so enraged at this moment. I just don't even know what to say. I don't know who to trust. The dad I talked to alone the other day is not the same dad I just talked to on the phone while my mom is listening. I can't trust his words to be his own anymore. All my mom know is that she is hurt and she doesn't care that I am trying to get help for myself.

I pray that I don't turn violent, because it really feels like that is the only avenue I have left to turn to..........

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LadyKate
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:46 pm 
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So they tell you your mom was sexually abused as a child. Or she was raped. Or she watched someone being murdered.
Does it matter? Giving you something to feel sorry for your mother about does not change what she has done. Explaining behavior does not excuse it.
And, at this point, do you really need to bear the burden of whatever "secret" your parents have been carrying??

IF THEY WANT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING THEY CAN DO IT IN THERAPY! And if the secret is that your mom was molested by a therapist she can get over it.

Seriously, I have gone from being sad and hurt for you guys by this situation, but now I am starting to get angry and I'm just a bystander!!

Stop talking to both of them. I mean it. BOTH OF THEM. If your dads sweet side the other day was genuine then he can bring it into the therapy room with or without your mother.

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Mookhow
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:01 pm 
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Sounds to me like you, Oonagh, and your son need a nice relaxing weekend trip out of town.

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Katas
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:13 pm 
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Any secret worth sharing with you to excuse her behavior is worth sharing in front of a neutral party.

If they are unwilling to share the secret in front of a neutral party, please explain to them, calmly and rationally, that given your recent experience with them, you are unable to hear it.

It's more important that you have someone who hasn't been covered in crap by their lunacy present to make sure you don't see the secret from a place of hurt and anger than it is you be told a secret you could misunderstand.

That's not the truth but it's a lot better than saying you don't believe their word to the extent if they told you it was raining outside, and you heard the rain on the roof and saw reports on the news, you'd still have to stick a hand out to verify their report.

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Müs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:16 pm 
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Foamy wrote:
O! M! G!

Now there is a deep dark secret that my dad wants to tell me about the past that he thinks will excuse my mother from her behaviour.

I don't know what in hell he is talking about, but they are attempting to force themselves on us later tonight.

I just got done yelling at them on the phone and still they care not one ounce for what has been hurting me for years.

I want them to leave me alone and let me get counseling. They won't do it.

I predict tonight some type of irreparable damage to my life. I don't know what, but it will likely be of the most dire kind. Ties may be cut tonight. They won't let me work this out in front of a counselor, and they want to tell me some secret that somehow will magically heal everything.

I am so enraged at this moment. I just don't even know what to say. I don't know who to trust. The dad I talked to alone the other day is not the same dad I just talked to on the phone while my mom is listening. I can't trust his words to be his own anymore. All my mom know is that she is hurt and she doesn't care that I am trying to get help for myself.

I pray that I don't turn violent, because it really feels like that is the only avenue I have left to turn to..........


Foamster. I'm just going to echo what Kate's (and pretty much everyone here) has been saying. Stop talking to them. I know its hard, but don't answer the phone. Don't listen to the voicemails, don't read messages, emails. There's no deep dark secret that will excuse her behavior. AS far as your father goes, he's made his bed, and he needs to lie in it. You don't need to take your family and lie in it with him. That way lies madness.

Who to trust? Simple. Trust Oonagh, and your boy. Maybe extend that trust to Oonagh's family. YOu can't trust your parents, just from what you've posted here, you can't trust them any further than Sean can throw them. They're *both* manipulative and verging on evil at this point. Selfish, caring only for their own selves and not what YOU need to focus on for your family. You've been doing well so far mano. Stay strong and keep it together. If you break now, you'll have it all to do again in a month when something else rears its ugly head...

We're ALL pulling for you here. Noone here wants to see you fail. Man up, rub some dirt on it, and KICK SOME *** SEA BASS! /fistpound

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Foamy
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:17 pm 
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For all those who have always wondered what a descent into madness feels like....

Rage building inside.
Feeling of wanting to hurt someone.
Can't quite focus on work at hand.
Burning cheeks and ears.

They don't care. They don't want to accept counseling as an option. It's not the right thing, they say.

I will lose my mind tonight. My OWN **** PARENTS WON'T LET ME GET COUNSELED.

**** THEM. I HATE THEM. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT ME.

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Müs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Foamy wrote:
For all those who have always wondered what a descent into madness feels like....

Rage building inside.
Feeling of wanting to hurt someone.
Can't quite focus on work at hand.
Burning cheeks and ears.

They don't care. They don't want to accept counseling as an option. It's not the right thing, they say.

I will lose my mind tonight. My OWN **** PARENTS WON'T LET ME GET COUNSELED.

**** THEM. I HATE THEM. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT ME.


Yes, yes! Give in to the anger. Give in to the hatred. Release it all and your journey to the dark si... Oh wait.

Dude. Release it all. Catharsis is good. GO sit in your car and scream yourself hoarse, pound your fists on the steering wheel... Burn it all out.

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Foamy
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:25 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Foamy wrote:
For all those who have always wondered what a descent into madness feels like....

Rage building inside.
Feeling of wanting to hurt someone.
Can't quite focus on work at hand.
Burning cheeks and ears.

They don't care. They don't want to accept counseling as an option. It's not the right thing, they say.

I will lose my mind tonight. My OWN **** PARENTS WON'T LET ME GET COUNSELED.

**** THEM. I HATE THEM. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT ME.


Yes, yes! Give in to the anger. Give in to the hatred. Release it all and your journey to the dark si... Oh wait.

Dude. Release it all. Catharsis is good. GO sit in your car and scream yourself hoarse, pound your fists on the steering wheel... Burn it all out.


Thank you. I needed a good chuckle. Unfortunately, my wires are so crossed that it turned into crying at the same time.

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LadyKate
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:27 pm 
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Foamy wrote:
I will lose my mind tonight. My OWN **** PARENTS WON'T LET ME GET COUNSELED.

**** THEM. I HATE THEM. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT ME.


You can go throw a tantrum, (I do it all the time when I'm angry), but it won't help.
You are understandably pissed which is a good thing....sometimes it takes anger to finally do something that has been needed to be done for a long time, i.e standing up for yourself against your parents.

But read your words there man. You are giving your parents too much control over your life and your emotions.
You still haven't let go.
You need to.

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Micheal
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:34 pm 
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Damn, the chocolate must be long gone by now.

Leave caution behind. Tell your parents that if they must communicate with you in the next six months they need to convince Elmo they are sane and the topic is urgent.

No contact until your therapist clears it. Best practice.

The deep dark secret will probably explain why your father returned to your mother. Ask your brother to take notes on that. You'll check back later. After therapy.

Oh, anything they tell you right now will be extremely suspect. Lies are to be expected commensurate with your father's near death experience.

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LadyKate
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:42 pm 
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Micheal wrote:
Oh, anything they tell you right now will be extremely suspect. Lies are to be expected commensurate with your father's near death experience.


Especially this part...even I fell for that one.

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Müs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:48 pm 
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Foamy wrote:
Müs wrote:
Yes, yes! Give in to the anger. Give in to the hatred. Release it all and your journey to the dark si... Oh wait.

Dude. Release it all. Catharsis is good. GO sit in your car and scream yourself hoarse, pound your fists on the steering wheel... Burn it all out.


Thank you. I needed a good chuckle. Unfortunately, my wires are so crossed that it turned into crying at the same time.


You know, that's ok. Its still a cathartic release.
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The term catharsis has also been adopted by modern psychotherapy, particularly Freudian psychoanalysis, to describe the act of expressing, or more accurately, experiencing the deep emotions often associated with events in the individual's past which had originally been repressed or ignored, and had never been adequately addressed or experienced. A quote from his first Lecture in the US, "An Introduction to Psychoanalysis", is given to support this important point, "... experience shows that if the patient is reproducing the traumatic scene to the physician, the process has no curative effect if, by some peculiar chance, there is no development of emotion." Catharsis is also an emotional release associated with talking about the underlying causes of a problem or seeing a dream.


In theory, once you release the energy, the emotion, no matter the form, you can take a step back and examine the situation in a more relaxed, almost detached fashion. I believe in the process, not necessarily the freudian stuff about past life and such... but eh, I'm digressing.

And if you release the anger, the emotion, the hurt, and all that jazz before hand, it makes everything much easier to deal with. See, you've already dealt with the emotion, and you can be more in control of your emotions if you have to face your stressors.

Its kinda like rubbin one out before a date :) Except, with screaming and stuff.

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Elmarnieh
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:01 pm 
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You know my advice.

If you want to talk just put the battery in the phone and call me. I'll be relatively close all Saturday and an hours drive away most of Sunday.

If your parents show up at your house call the cops, press charges, and get a restraining order.

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Diamondeye
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:49 pm 
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Foamy wrote:
For all those who have always wondered what a descent into madness feels like....

Rage building inside.
Feeling of wanting to hurt someone.
Can't quite focus on work at hand.
Burning cheeks and ears.

They don't care. They don't want to accept counseling as an option. It's not the right thing, they say.

I will lose my mind tonight. My OWN **** PARENTS WON'T LET ME GET COUNSELED.

**** THEM. I HATE THEM. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT ME.


They don't have a choice to let you or not let you do anything. Go get the counselling yourself, without them.

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Teekeela
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:07 pm 
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You need a special Phe encouragement drawing.

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Corolinth
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:03 pm 
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Stop thinking of this woman as your mother, and consider her cancer of the family. If left untreated, it will be fatal.

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Jeryn
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:52 pm 
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What DE said. Go anyway. Your parents have no ability to keep you from getting counseled; all they can do is refuse to participate themselves. Frankly, you need to go whether or not they're there. If nothing else, you could use the detached validation from a professional that you're doing the right thing in backing away and getting some space right now, especially if you're still feeling like caving in right now, in spite of it all.

It sounds to me like your mom's scared to participate. Airing everything out in front of a neutral party means being in a position where she's, unequivocally, not the one in control - she's probably scared to death of that and will do practically anything to avoid it, especially when the neutral assessment of her behavior is not likely to be particularly glowing.

I hope they're respecting the sanctity of your home tonight. If they're not, do what you need to. Whatever else happens, you need home to be a place these messed up relationships don't follow you.
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Darkroland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:02 am 
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You love your mother. You still do, even after all the horrible things she's done. You keep taking steps to help her, to fix her, to try and make peace. You put the olive branch out, she snatches it and beats you with it, so you go find another olive branch. She's not going to stop doing that until you stop bringing her branches.

Therapy is a good idea. The people who absolutely refuse therapy seem to be the ones who need it most.

Unfortunately, it sounds like your father is completely under your mother's control. You will not be able to work with him without resolving issues with her, which means you cannot attempt to work with him behind her back without inviting her influence back into your life. You've already taken the right steps. You've created a legal boundary by calling the police and demonstrating that you will not be strong-armed. You've brought up the subject of therapy, and even taken it on yourself to set up appointments and invite them to come.

Here is what you really need to listen to, Foamy. You are not responsible for this. You did not cause it, and it is not your fault. We do not get to choose our family, and unfortunately, sometimes that ends badly for us. These people are seriously damaging your life, Oonagh's life, and even FoamyJr's. There is nothing on this earth that says they have that right any longer. I understand the pull of family. "Oh, they do the most horrible things, but they're family so we forgive them." That's not law, and a lot of time it's destructive.

They have no right to your life. The second you left their home, you are your own person, free and clear. Take a big mental knife, and cut them out of your life. They have no right to you, your wife, or your child. Tell them exactly what they will need to do regain access, and be done with them for now. When we're emotionally in the center of the thunderstorm, it's very difficult to make objective choices. Some time to center yourself and really examine your feelings will be very productive.

(I hope this helps, I edited and rewrote it about 700 times. Really good luck to you, I know exactly where you're coming from.)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:32 pm 
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Wow.

Foamy, I am sorry you have a lot of pain still stored up in you. I know what that can be like. I still (on extreme rare occasions) have dreams of my father when I was younger and wake up in a rage wanting to vent all over him. Unfortunately that person is long gone (he's still alive, but he's changed completely.... the tyrant I knew is dead. which, honestly, makes it a lot harder for closure).

I do know that you need to get those emotions sorted out, very likely professionally. With or without your parents, you need to learn to let it go so your mother stops having power of you. As long as even the thought of her can send you into this type of rage, she has power of you. The best way to get rid of it (which has helped me immensely... even before my father changed) is to forgive her. You don't have to like someone, or even want to be around them, to forgive them. You're basically saying, "You hurt me, but I'm putting it behind me. I am going to live my life not chained to your memory."

Here's the ultimate reason you need this sorted out: If you don't, your kids have a higher chance of suffering for it. Usually people who were abused by their parents (physically, mentally, or even emotionally) do either one of two things. 1. They transfer the same problems onto their kids by either repeating what happened to them or letting their anger/regret vent towards the kids. 2. They go out of their way to raise their children the extreme opposite of how they were raised. Which in theory might sound good, but in practice it can be just as damaging (see: kids whose parents give them practically no discipline or rules, or let their kids walk all over them because they refuse to get remotely tough).

Ultimately, your kids are more important than your parents. You have to raise them in a way that gives them the greatest chance at succeeding in life (emotionally, physically, occupationally). I say "greatest chance" because, like your parents, everyone has free agency to live their lives how they see fit. Your mother made some bad choices. Now she may potentially have to live with consequences that include having her grandchildren not a part of her life. That is her fault, and not yours. Now you have to make some choices that will affect your own emotional and mental well-being, as well as how your kids will be raised. Kids will grow up and make their own choices, good or bad, but you can at least know that you did your best and that's all anyone can ask.

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Foamy
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Though I am not sure it will have the intended effect, as suggested by my therapist, I am writing a letter to my parents.

Here it is:
(Some names have been changed to protect the innocent)

Spoiler:
Mom and Dad,

I have tried asking you many times now what it is that I need, but my requests have repeatedly been denied. I want to put my thoughts down on paper so you may read and re-read this as needed.

I need time alone, away from the two of you. I don’t want to be called. I don’t want you at my door. I want to be left alone.

I am hurting. I have been hurting and I will continue to hurt if we continue as we have for so many years. My feelings and my wife’s feelings have been ignored for too long now. I can’t go on acting as a family when we are far from it.

I can’t handle the guilt any more. Any unhappiness between the two of you is not my responsibility to make better. You don’t know the depth of the pain I feel, all you care about is how you feel when I act the way I do. Neither one of you has stopped to think there is something deeper that is driving my actions instead of making me to be the bad one for acting as I do.

I am not respected as an adult in your eyes. I am no longer your little boy to baby and fawn over. I am a grown man with a family of my own. I am not well and I am trying to make myself better for my family’s sake. When I say my family, I mean Oonagh, Sean and I. I come first, they come second, and you come in third. I hope you can understand this, but somehow I think you will not.

We will not solve this problem ourselves, the four of us, we have tried and nothing has ever been solved. I am currently trying to get help for myself. This is the first step, the first of many towards hopefully resolving this eventually. If you do care for me, you will respect my wishes, keep your distance and let me try and get the help I need. I can’t hide my contempt any longer and do not wish to keep up the charade.

Dad, I want you to make the time to come to a counseling session with me. I have talked with you many times leading up to this over the years, and I have talked with only you twice since this has now come to a head. You have not listened to me. You are concerned with everyone except me. Mom isn’t the only one hurt, you aren’t the only one hurt…Oonagh and I are hurt and though you may have heard my words, you have taken no action to help alleviate our pain, only asked me to hide it and “keep the peace”. Oonagh and I can’t cover over our feelings any longer and pretend we are happy. We will not be guilted into doing what is right for you and Mom, but wrong for Oonagh and I. We have things to tell you that need to be heard. I would like you to come with us to speak with our counselor. I am not going to demand that you do this; rather I want you to make up your mind to do this on your own. Leave me a message, let me know if/when you can do this.

Please, I need time away from that which is hurting me. I know you may not accept this, but it is what I need right now. If you both care about me, my health and my ability to take care of my family, you will respect my wishes.

In the meantime, search yourselves and think about this. Are Foamy and Oonagh the only causes of this? Are Foamy and Oonagh the only ones who have problems? Have I (we) done anything to cause this?

Please, I want it to be better. I want us to be a normal functioning family, but it isn’t going to happen easily or quickly. Nor will it happen by us acting alone. I need help first and I ask you search yourselves and consider your part in this.

Though I don’t show it, nor have I felt it for years, I do love you. Somewhere deep inside me, I must feel this, otherwise I wouldn’t be trying to make it right. You are my parents and the only two I will ever have. Help make this right by doing what I ask and maybe we’ll be able to resolve this so the two of you, Oonagh and myself can all be happy together.

I know it hurts now and I am sorry I didn’t do this for myself before Sean was born. I don’t want to keep him from you, but as I told you several time before. I have to come first. I can’t take care of my family while I hurt as bad I do. I need to take care of myself and my wife who is an innocent bystander in this. She stepped into a bad situation when she met me and it has never gotten better between you and her. Do not mistake any of this as problems in our marriage. Oonagh makes me happier than anything in this world and I would give my life for her. To see her hurt by our situation has become unbearable to me.

As your son, as a grown man, as a husband, as a father…for the sake of me and my family, grant me what I ask and please, for a time, let me have some distance and please, Dad, as a first step, consider coming to a therapy session with Oonagh and I.

Foamy


My words, in their minds, may be fueled by anger. But hopefully when they have my words in their hands to read, reread, and reread again, they will see that it is not blind rage that is spurring me on, rather an emotionally scarred young father who can barely hold it together anymore in the face of their harassment of me to make things better NOW.

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Elmarnieh
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:25 pm 
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Good luck. I don't think it will do anything - your dad won't have the guts to get away from your mom to attend counseling even if he wants to.

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Micheal
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:23 pm 
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Bull Moose
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All of a sudden I am reading Elmo's posts and hearing Emperor Palpatine's voice.

Not from a Jedi!

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Good luck. Hugs to the three of you.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones
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Diamondeye
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:49 pm 
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Commence Primary Ignition
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Micheal wrote:
All of a sudden I am reading Elmo's posts and hearing Emperor Palpatine's voice.

Not from a Jedi!

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Good luck. Hugs to the three of you.


I remember Myrea making the same comparison at one point...

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