The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:12 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 100 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:22 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:54 am
Posts: 2369
I cant speak to how the comic book character would act since I'm not as up on it as most here. The Cap I remember was all about pride in his country and doing the right thing for it while opposing it's enemies and working with friends. The iconic example being WWII, during which this is supposedly set. An embodiment of the US, not a tool of it. He is the best qualities of America anthropomorphized into a super hero. So this comment:

Quote:
Yeah and it’s also the idea that this is not about America so much as it is about the spirit of doing the right thing,” the director said. “It’s an international cast and an international story. It’s about what makes America great and what make the rest of the world great too.


doesnt fit. Maybe this is just a move towards more international ticket sales, but combine it with the panels I posted above it's pretty doubtful that is the sole reason. It sounds more like a liberal "one world" with Cap shoehorned in.

_________________
“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 2410
How so? By seeing value in other nations we are shoehorning Cap into a one world thing? It's not a zero sum game. Other countries being awesome does not take away from America being awesome.

_________________
Image

It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:23 pm 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
Monte wrote:
How so? By seeing value in other nations we are shoehorning Cap into a one world thing? It's not a zero sum game. Other countries being awesome does not take away from America being awesome.


Yes. Captain America is about America; it's right there in his name. Seeing value in other nations has nothing to do with it. We don't need to include other countries in distinctly American things.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:49 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:54 am
Posts: 2369
Monte wrote:
How so? By seeing value in other nations we are shoehorning Cap into a one world thing? It's not a zero sum game. Other countries being awesome does not take away from America being awesome.


Yes I agree that other nations having huge doses of awesome takes nothing away from the US, but does it make sense to say Captain America isnt so much about America? To downplay his patriotism? Isnt that who Cap is? It just seems silly on it's face. That's what I object to. They seem to be going out of their way to make sure they dont come off as Americans who love their country based on some irrational fear of being seen as caricatured "America, **** YEAH!" stereotypes.

_________________
“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:44 pm 
Offline
Peanut Gallery
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Bat Country
Cap was created in a different era in American history as well. it makes sense that he'd be different somewhat if remade today. He's not even close to my favorite superhero. I'm pretty neutral towards him really... As long as they don't make his origin for the movie too stupid and he beats up people in an awesome fashion I don't care if they make him a Pakistani immigrant.

_________________
"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:05 am 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
Spoiler:
Image
needs to
Image
minus
Image
Image
the director

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:40 am 
Offline
Peanut Gallery
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Bat Country
I wonder if Stan still collects royalties or something from anything? I know Marvel fired him at one point... :|

_________________
"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:23 am 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
Dash wrote:
Monte wrote:
How so? By seeing value in other nations we are shoehorning Cap into a one world thing? It's not a zero sum game. Other countries being awesome does not take away from America being awesome.


Yes I agree that other nations having huge doses of awesome takes nothing away from the US, but does it make sense to say Captain America isnt so much about America? To downplay his patriotism? Isnt that who Cap is? It just seems silly on it's face. That's what I object to. They seem to be going out of their way to make sure they dont come off as Americans who love their country based on some irrational fear of being seen as caricatured "America, **** YEAH!" stereotypes.


The fear isn't really irrational (in the sense that the caricatureization will happen, not in the sense that they should care) because a lot of people do precisely that. Any praise of America whatsoever is seen as "****". Patriotism of any kind is seen as bad because well, Dubya!

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:01 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:54 am
Posts: 2369
Diamondeye wrote:
Dash wrote:
Monte wrote:
How so? By seeing value in other nations we are shoehorning Cap into a one world thing? It's not a zero sum game. Other countries being awesome does not take away from America being awesome.


Yes I agree that other nations having huge doses of awesome takes nothing away from the US, but does it make sense to say Captain America isnt so much about America? To downplay his patriotism? Isnt that who Cap is? It just seems silly on it's face. That's what I object to. They seem to be going out of their way to make sure they dont come off as Americans who love their country based on some irrational fear of being seen as caricatured "America, **** YEAH!" stereotypes.


The fear isn't really irrational (in the sense that the caricatureization will happen, not in the sense that they should care) because a lot of people do precisely that. Any praise of America whatsoever is seen as "****". Patriotism of any kind is seen as bad because well, Dubya!


That's probably true, although I think it's irrational in the sense that anyone called Captain America is going to get that response from the usual suspects inclined to do so. In other words, you're not going to make anyone happy by slapping a UN flavor on to Captain America.

_________________
“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 2410
Patriotism isn't necessarily a good thing. it can be, if exercised carefully. However, all too often blind nationalism is confused with patriotism.

_________________
Image

It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
Monte wrote:
Patriotism isn't necessarily a good thing. it can be, if exercised carefully. However, all too often blind nationalism is confused with patriotism.

Seems likely then that all too often folks can get confused about what patriotism is.

I seriously disagree that patriotism needs be exercised carefully. I'd prefer folks to display patriotism proudly, but then again, I don't think there's anything to apologize for about being patriotic.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 2410
Well, that depends. I see absolutely no value in flag waving if your country has gone off the deep end. I see no value in cheering on your country without regard to the things your country is doing.

_________________
Image

It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:14 am 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
Monte wrote:
Well, that depends. I see absolutely no value in flag waving if your country has gone off the deep end. I see no value in cheering on your country without regard to the things your country is doing.


The problem is... this movie takes place in WW2, where exactly that was patriotism.

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:17 am 
Offline
Bull Moose
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 7507
Location: Last Western Stop of the Pony Express
Flag-Smasher, it is all the Latverian's fault you know.

Image

_________________
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm
Posts: 7
“A man's country is not a certain area of land, of mountains, rivers, and woods, but it is a principle; and patriotism is loyalty to that principle.” George William Curtis

_________________
Such a simple concept, yet so true; that which we manifest is before us; we are the creators of our own destiny. Be it through intention or ignorance, our successes and our failures have been brought on by none other than ourselves. - Enzo, The Art of Racing in the Rain.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
darksiege wrote:
Monte wrote:
Well, that depends. I see absolutely no value in flag waving if your country has gone off the deep end. I see no value in cheering on your country without regard to the things your country is doing.


The problem is... this movie takes place in WW2, where exactly that was patriotism.

Do you think the "country went off the deep end" in WW2?

Patriotism is all about supporting your country and defending it from folks that would make it less than it is. It's about building it up, making it better and stronger, and keeping others from tearing it down. The more effort someone puts into that the more patriotic they are, and Captain America's efforts put him at the top of the list of patriots.

If all you see is cheering and flag waving, you're either just looking at the surface or you're not looking at patriots.

Khross wrote:
It seems to me that American Liberals are under the mistaken assumption that Old Glory is a symbol of the government. I'm not sure why this surprises me, since they likewise have rather odd assumptions of the Stars and Bars, the Union Jack, and Don't Tread on Me.

Seems that way to me too, Khross.

If this movie doesn't show Cap being patriotic, then it'll suck. He's Captain F'ing AMERICA! for crying out loud!

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
Next thing you know, in a gesture of multinationalism and not deprecating the values of other nations, Captain America will not be fighting Nazis in his WWII origin movie.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:41 pm 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
My camel compatriot.... No I do not think we went off the deep end in WW2. But the overtly prideful displays of Patriotism and if you do not support America "eff you" seemed to be the basic atmosphere. To take that away from him (the overly proud American fighting the enemies of our land down to his own dying breath) is to make him as "Captain America" like as my left *** cheek.

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 3879
Location: 63368
darksiege wrote:
My camel compatriot.... No I do not think we went off the deep end in WW2. But the overtly prideful displays of Patriotism and if you do not support America "eff you" seemed to be the basic atmosphere. To take that away from him (the overly proud American fighting the enemies of our land down to his own dying breath) is to make him as "Captain America" like as my left *** cheek.

I understand... there were 2 quotes I was addressing in that post, other than asking you if you thought we went off the deep end in ww2 I wasn't addressing you, just a fyi.

_________________
In time, this too shall pass.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:34 pm 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
S'all good. Just clarifying my position.

(and I was posting from my iPod so I could not go back and make sure I was spelling your name correctly... so I had to use a different greeting hehe)

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:56 am 
Offline
Peanut Gallery
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Bat Country
darksiege wrote:
Monte wrote:
Well, that depends. I see absolutely no value in flag waving if your country has gone off the deep end. I see no value in cheering on your country without regard to the things your country is doing.


The problem is... this movie takes place in WW2, where exactly that was patriotism.

We shouldn't have been in WWI or WWII. Nationalism is overrated. Everyone was born in some random country. If I were born anywhere else I might feel just as strongly as any flag waving American as a Pakistani, Burmese, Somalia, or North Korean man. That pride might be baseless, but I'd maybe feel it just as strongly. Most people don't even understand what freedom is in America, giving it attributes like jets, tanks, playing with your kids, and watching Full House.

Nothing wrong with patriotism, but "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." I'm wary of people that drape themselves in the flag.

_________________
"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:02 am 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
Yes, we should have been in both WWI and WWII. In WWI, Germany's submarine tactics had killed quite a few Americans, but mroe importantly, they had conspired with Mexico to directly attack the U.S.

In WWII, we got directly attacked, and if you mean we should have stayed out of Europe, Germany was Japan's ally and had declared war on us after Pearl Harbor.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:23 am 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Maybe we shouldn't have so egregiously insulted the Japanese by outright lying to them at Versailles.

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 2169
Khross wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't have so egregiously insulted the Japanese by outright lying to them at Versailles.

Are you referring to Shandong and the reversal in 1992 1922? Or the Racial Equality Proposal? Or something else?

Edit - Corrected year of the Naval Treaty


Last edited by Ladas on Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:07 am 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Ladas:

Nah, just generally not honoring our agreements with Japan on naval power and the Pacific after Versailles mostly.

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 100 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 201 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group